Doing some research on hybrids and I found some interesting info on the Prius. The materials needed to produce the batteries come out of Canada, which produce a large amount of sulfer into the atmosphere, then the foam which is produced goes to China which will be put into the batteries, and we all know how unrestrictive their environmental laws are, then the batteries are taken to Japan to be put into the car. What most people don't know is that somewhere around 80-90k miles the batteries will need to be changed which cost somewhere in the area of :eek: $5,000. My question is what happens to all of the unused batteries:confused:? In a recent test on one of my favorite shows BBC's Top Gear they tested a Prius vs. 2009 BMW M3 V8. The Prius had to go as fast as possible, and the M3 had to mearly keep up. The Prius returned 17.2 mpg, where the M3 had 19.5 mpg. All depends how you drive not what you drive, I'll keep the Armada beast, even if it gets 10mpg.

yep, I read last year sometime that the Prius has a larger "carbon footprint" than any other car in its class of size (footprint is overall impact on environment). Hybrids are mostly about marketing something "new" right now. To make true advances, we need to get on with the "real" technology advances like hydrogen or even the most recent advances in hydraulic generators/accumulators/motors. I get passed often in my area by a Prius - at the speed he is always doing he must be running flat out on combustion, so is not saving gas, money nor the environment. Sure I have the Mada like everyone on here, but drive a little Elantra for daily drive to work - not fancy but gets me there - I get 29 mpg and paid $4000 (used) - less than the $5000 for replacing Prius batteries that you mentioned.

Yup, it's true. It all depends on how you drive your vehicle. Honestly, the Prius to me is just a fashion statement saying, "look at me, I'm driving a hybrid". However, what's sad is that the Prius does more damage to the Earth than most cars in the market today.

Btw., Top Gear is the greatest show ever. A great site to catch up on every single show, including all specials, is this site: http://hessmo.com/Hessmo/Top_Gear.html. Great quality, full length and commercial-free :D.

1) Toyota warrants the batteries for 10 years/150k miles in California. Most will last that long too it seems. The only person I met (online, none in person) who needed to have batteries replaced in a Prius has a 1st generation Prius with almost 200k miles. He paid $3,400 if memory serves, and that included labor.

2) There is a tremendous amount of misinformation about hybrids, specifically against the Prius about its carbon footprint. Some whackjob posted an elaborate hoax claiming that a Prius did more damage to the environment than a Hummer H2. It's totally false, but every once in a while it pops up on one of the many forums I belong to like it is fact.

3) Yes it's true the Prius uses batteries....so what?. Every car on the road has batteries (lead acid mostly). Batteries can be, and do get recycled.

4) The Prius in no more a fashion statement than an Armada that never tows, goes off-road, or has had anyone in the 3rd row. So that is to say, I agree that it is somewhat of a fashion statement for some......but most vehicles are.

5) The Top Gear comparison was a joke IMHO. They only "proved" what they wanted to prove. What kind of gas mileage does a BMW get when driven balls-to-the-wall? Single digits easy. The Prius wasn't built for "performance" in the way enthusiasts think....acceleration (0-30, 0-60, 0-100-0, 1/4 mi, top speed etc) any more than an M3 is built to get 60 mpg.

6) I too have seen more than 1 Prius fly by in the HOV (car pool) lane at 90+ mph. But for every Prius doing 90+ mph, there's 10 in the middle or slow lane tooling along with traffic (or slower).

The Prius isn't my personal car of choice. But I DO believe in Hybrid technology. It is a lot better than doing nothing. I get 12.9 city mpg in my Armada. Did you guys know that the Chevrolet Tahoe Hybrid gets 22 mpg in the city? This has been verified time and again by several independent testers.

The next big thing for Hybrids are getting away from using nickel batteries and adding plug-in technology. Lithium-ion is way more efficient than nickel batteries; storing more energy, with less bulk, and weighing less. But that creates another problem too, lithium-ion explodes if it gets wet.

The upcoming Chevy Volt will be able to travel 40 miles and no use any gas! But it takes 8 hours to recharge.

Every "solution" has it's own set of problems. Even hydrogen fuel cells aren't perfect. It takes a tremendous amount of energy to break down hydrogen into "just" hydrogen. Over time fuel cells will probably get better and better. The Honda Clarity is available right now, the first hydrogen fuel cell car.

I appreciate the info, just wanted to raise some concern, because of the flack most of us take with our trucks. I do realize that these vehicles are just stepping stones but people make them out to be the vehicle everyone should drive and they are not. The Volt is another vehicle which will be good to see the progression of this technology, but at a price of close to $40k which some reports are suggesting. I'll pass on that, but any other info on this subject is greatly appreciated, and good luck to you all

I recently saw this documentary: Who Killed The Electric Car? (http://www.netflix.com/Movie/Who_Killed_the_Electric_Car/70052424?trkid=222336&lnkctr=srchrd-sr&strkid=854602480_0_0) and it really opened up my eyes to how crooked the auto industry is. The EV1 (the car focused on in the movie) was made by GM and was an electric plug in and had a range of 150 miles (IIRC). People loved them so much but GM would not let them renew the leases or buy them (for reasons explained in the movie).

They also went on to explain how poor American hybrids perform against their Japanese counterparts (ie: gas mileage) and how the Hydrogen Fuel Cell technology is too expensive and many years away.

If you have not watched it (and have Netflix!) I would suggest adding it to your queue.

I have seen that doc., it was interesting to watch but even that being about 10 years ago most people weren't interested gas was below $1 a gallon and the hassle wasn't what people wanted. Now that we look back it was a great idea and you would have thought GM would have learned from the EV1 on how to make an electric car. I agree with you that it is a very telling experience to watch.

I just find it suprising that the electric technology seems to have gone backwards. :confused:

I just find it suprising that the electric technology seems to have gone backwards. :confused:I know it does appear that way.....but a good bit of blame can be placed on the documentary writers themselves.

When the Chevy Volt comes out....and I hope it is 80% as good as Chevy is saying it is.....it will be a giant leap forward.

Sure the EV1 was neat, but it was a 2 seater. The Volt will seat 4, plus be able to go 250 miles or more.

Personally I do wish GM didn't abandon that EV project. I know it looks shady to some that GM crushed all the EV1s after the lease was up. But think about all the proprietary equipment inside that thing. If another manufacturer got a hold of one, then they could reverse engineer it, and use GM's R&D to make profits for themselves. At the time, GM was really beginning to lose market share in the North America. They were also less lean and profitable than Toyota in particular. From a business standpoint, you are going to kill the projects that cost the most, and offer the least amount of return. Like already stated, gas was cheap, and Americans were becoming enamored with trucks and SUVs like never before. GM lost money on every EV1 it leased, yet they could sell a crappy Chevy Blazer for a profit, and a Chevy Suburban at an even higher profit. Today though, GM executives have expressed regret as to crushing all the EV1s. But kind of like a little kid, i wonder if they are sorry they did it, or sorry they got caught? Meh, just thinking out loud.

Good thread.......I am not trying to push my beliefs on everyone, just looking at the issues from all sides.

Good responses, if you guys have a chance Mini Released the Mini CooperE, which as you guessed it is electric, with a range of 100miles, and they will throw out the back seat for you to make room for the 570lbs battery, and will happily charge you 2 1/2 times as much. I was suprised I was expecting a little better of a plan from Mini