I am trying to figure how to convey the proper issues/concerns I am having.
I have the Firestone lifetime alignment and I have been having issues trying to get the damn thing nailed down.

Background:
- Shocks: Bilstein shocks up front and have air on the rear, but factory suspension otherwise
- Tires/Rims: Factory 18" rims w/ Nitto TerraGrappler 325/60-18
- I have just shy of 48,000 miles on it

Issues:
- I am having major vibration and rumbling (I was told it is just the aggressive tread on the Nitto's, but not sure)
- When I hit any bump, small or large, I have ungodly pull.
- My steering column makes clicking noises when I hit bumps (Maybe a warranty issue)

Generally speaking, I have had more issues since I had the Nitto's installed, but I have had these damn things road-force balanced 3 times and I am tired of dropping $'s on this process. I do plan on getting the result of the alignment printed out so I can post and ask questions.... But I wanted to bounce this off a few of the SME's!

TIA,
sinnerFA

wider tires will follow dips and the crown of the road more. the wider the tire the more it follows

wider tires will follow dips and the crown of the road more. the wider the tire the more it follows

And I totally understand that logic... My main issue is that it seems just a bit excessive. I used to have a '02 Nissan Xterra and had aggressive tires placed on it and did not have similar issues where the steering wheel wants to take off.

If the tires are aired down to 43psi, then it's not the tires..... I know people say wider tires follow the road, etc, but mine are pretty dadgumned smooth for the most part. I can hit those medium to large bumps with very little bounce and if I had your Bilsteins, the small bumps would be really smooth.

IMHO, you're on the right track..... I'd venture to bet if you look at the rear wheels from a several feet distance behind and down the sides of the rear to front tires, my guess is that you can likely visibly see the misalignment. Looking forward to seeing the Alignment final specs posted. Make sure the printout includes all 4 tires. :D

If the tires are aired down to 43psi, then it's not the tires..... Looking forward to seeing the Alignment final specs posted. Make sure the printout includes all 4 tires. :D

I will be sure to walk out with them... They have been very good at giving them to me. Also I try to keep the air in the tires @ 43psi, based on the recommended setting that I saw on here. I will double check though. And as a side note: I am pretty sure that it was you that had dished out that tidbit. Thanks for your help!

I will be sure to walk out with them... They have been very good at giving them to me. Also I try to keep the air in the tires @ 43psi, based on the recommended setting that I saw on here. I will double check though. And as a side note: I am pretty sure that it was you that had dished out that tidbit. Thanks for your help!

Yea, my wife is very sensative to a vehicle's ride, she gets car sick very easily. Her family says I've spoiled her with my driving because she usually gets queazy when riding with them anymore. So, I've spent alot of time learning how to get the best ride possible w/o sacraficing any performance and reliability. For everything I've messed with, the rear wheel alignment had the largest impact on the quality of ride. Being just a tad bit off makes a world of difference on these.


FWIW, she was complaining of turning the steering wheel on her Murano aggrevating her tennis elbow. I took it in for alignment and the Front end Toe was out only 1/8" and the Rear camber was out 1/64". I also changed out the door knob on the house to garage door for a handle instead and went ahead and did the same for the house front door. She said her elbow is much better now and turning the steering wheel doesn't hurt like it did before.

I never thought that a wheel alignment affected much more than tire wear, but this past 2 years has taught me that I was way wrong.

how many miles on the nittos, and how often have they been rotated? first off, an alignment will not fix a vibration. period. the only cause of a vibration is something out of balance, or very rarely, a bad front end part causing something to wiggle, for lack of a technical term. so your first issue, the vibration, i would bet is tire balance. but you say it also rumbles, which could be the tires cupping, or wearing unevenly on either the inside or outside edge (thats why i ask about the miles/rotates on the tires). i would check the wear, and if they are cupped, i would recommend crossing all 4 tires side to side. this will cause them to wear in the opposite direction and can help with cupping.

your second issue, the pull, is curious. does it alway pull the same way when hitting bumps? the tires will follow the road, but my 325s werent to bad once i had the bilsteins. i would specifically have them check the caster reading, as to low a caster number can cause the vehicle to wander, which would be worse with bad pavement.

the last issue souns like a warranty deal.

as for the tires, i would set the air a bit lower. i ran mine at 30psi. i would go 35 and see how that drives for a little while. 43 seems a bit high for that wide a tire. considering the factory tires are 2" narrower and run at 35 i certainly wouldnt go any higher.

how many miles on the Nitto's?
~9000 miles

how often have they been rotated? Rotated every 3k, so 3 times, not including when they road forced them the 3 times, so I am not positive if they rotated or not.

does it always pull the same way when hitting bumps?
It seems to be random, but if this little info helps: When I brake it is straight no wandering or pulling in either direction....

the last issue sounds like a warranty deal.
I have tried to have that looked at under warranty, as well as other issues, and I keep being told it's because of the "aggressive" tread that the tires have... Ironically, it seems like they have a full list of excuses for just about every issue I have ever had.

So this brings up the magic question: What PSI should I be using for my tires? I have researched and the consensus was that ~43psi was the "sweet spot" for these tires.... When I bought the tires they had them up at 40psi. So, is this opening up a can of worms? :confused:

So this brings up the magic question: What PSI should I be using for my tires? I have researched and the consensus was that ~43psi was the "sweet spot" for these tires.... When I bought the tires they had them up at 40psi. So, is this opening up a can of worms? :confused:

43-psi.... I spoke with Nitto Tech Support and these tires on the OEM 8.0" rims are recommended by them to be at 43psi .

43-psi.... I spoke with Nitto Tech Support and these tires on the OEM 8.0" rims are recommended by them to be at 43psi .

Excellent, Chalk that one up as SOLVED! Thanks again Pops for going the extra mile with your research.

:bow:

i really disagree with the 43psi. i mean, think about it: the 325 is what, 60mm wider, over 2". if the stock tires were rated at 35 psi, and they were actually supposed to be on an 8" rim, why would you run more pressure in a tire that is supposed to be on a wider rim? its going to balloon the tire, period. i may not be a nitto tire tech, but 5 years in a store that did 100+ cars per day has taught me a few things. for the record i ran my 325s at 30 psi and they wore great and drove as well as stock.

Speaking of alignments. Im thinking about going to Firestone for it. I had a life time theing with my nissan max before. Is there anything special to tell them? I thought I heard someone on a thread talking about a button to push after their done.

i really disagree with the 43psi. i mean, think about it: the 325 is what, 60mm wider, over 2". if the stock tires were rated at 35 psi, and they were actually supposed to be on an 8" rim, why would you run more pressure in a tire that is supposed to be on a wider rim? its going to balloon the tire, period. i may not be a nitto tire tech, but 5 years in a store that did 100+ cars per day has taught me a few things. for the record i ran my 325s at 30 psi and they wore great and drove as well as stock.

Matt, FWIW, I had spent a LOT of time messing with the psi to get a good ride w/o any squat. When I called Nitto, the tech took my phone number after I told her all the information and she called me back an hour later after running the calculations and said their calculator is officially suggesting 43psi and so did an engineer who she double checked the calculation with. When I checked it to adjust it, I found that I already had them at 43psi because that was where I found the happy medium to be.

Considering I put these tires on at around 25k miles on the odometer and it's about to roll 70k miles with still enough evenly worn tread on them to get me through this next year, I'd have to say that their recommendation seems to be dead on target.

Keep in mind that the OEM tires are P-Rated and these are LT Rated so the sidewalls are stiffer and need to be supported better. As you've seen in the pics I've posted over the last few years, there's definitely never been any ballooning happening. Heck, they didn't even balloon in the least bit when the installer had pumped them up to 50psi.

I'm sure it can be disputed in theory, but I can tell ya that it's been working very well for me. :)

Depending on the tires, 50 to 80 psi is possible. 10 ply tires can run up to 80 psi for full loading. I ran michelins on my Tahoe at 45 psi and they were incredible compared to the P metric junk that came on it from the factory. On any big SUV or even 1/2 ton pickup I would run 8 ply or 10 ply tires to reduce body roll in the corners and to have better puncture resistance offroad.

Okay All Here is the printout from the alignment:

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_Y32a4PVf4jA/S2hVrpvvstI/AAAAAAAADW4/Bla8iP6uz20/s800/IMG.jpg

The bottom values are kinda hard to read, but are as follows:

<START>
Rear:
Cross Camber Actual= -0.2 Before= -0.2
Total Toe Actual= 0.15 Before= 0.14
Thrust Angle Actual= -0.07 Before= -0.07

The steering wheel is currently level
</END>

I also had another tire rotation, and with 10miles on it does feel better, but seems as though I am still having issues (besides the steering column warranty issues of course)... Any ideas?

TIA

Sinner, they setup the machine wrong...... Yours is an LE with Rear Load Leveling, they plugged in that it does not have Rear Load Leveling. The OEM specs are different, they need to plug in that it has Load Leveling on it.

They also need to leave your engine running while doing the alignment because the suspension will settle while they're working on it. If your engine is off, the compressor can kick on and throw the alignment out after the engine is started. If the engine is left running during the alignment process then it is keeping the actual height that it will be driving on and the alignment will be more accurate. The tech who did mine pointed out that he couldn'tget mine to stay unless he left the engine running while aligning.


I think your Toe might be out a tad too far..... I know it's all within the documented acceptable specs but when mine was brought down closer to the lower numbers, the ride improved. A trick I was told for the Front is to toe it in a tad bit because Road Force kicks the Front end Toe out a bit while driving.

I would ask for the Front Toe to be closer to .07-.08 on both sides.

The Rear-Left is 0.00 and the Rear-Right is at 0.14 which I know is said to be acceptable but that's quite a difference between the two. I would ask for the Rear-Right to be brought down alot closer to 0.00 or have both sides set closer to 0.07 to be more even across.

I honestly don't know anything about these numbers other than what made mine ride better, so take it for whatever it's worth. I'm far from knowing anything about alignments other than what I was told and watched happen on mine.

Pops,

Good catch with the SE vs LE w/ air-ride, I had not even paid attention to that. Also it's a good tip on leaving it running when they rack it because of the auto-leveling. I had seen the rear toe values and was a bit concerned about there being such a wide variation. I am just unsure what the other #'s mean in reference to the issues I am having. I will have to plan another trip...

Anyone else see anything "out-of-whack"?

That caster can't be adjusted easily and shouldn't need messing with and the Camber doesn't really seem to affect the ride like I thought it would.

For the front, the "Total Toe" is actually what you're after. You'll want that to be closer to 0.14-0.16.

I'd just get that rear straightened out, I really think that might be where some binding is coming from cropping up the rear suspension and causing it to bounce more than necessary.

Tires don't affect your alignment, only a suspension lift or drop does. Since you're still at OEM height, there's no reason that they shouldn't be able to get those Rear numbers to match up better. If you had a mini-lift then I'd suggest lowering the rear 0.5" to see if it helps them reach lower numbers, but at stock height that should not be an issue.

If they need my numbers, I can take mine to Store #282367 and let them rack it up to send the numbers over to your store but I don't want to have to pay them to rack it for a printout.

If they need my numbers, I can take mine to Store #282367 and let them rack it up to send the numbers over to your store but I don't want to have to pay them to rack it for a printout.

If I have issues getting them to adjust it a little more inline with what your saying, then I may have to take you up on it....

I have it scheduled for this Friday and they are going to use the setting's that you had recommended Pops...

I am going to hold them to it, they also had a explained that they looked at the vehicle and saw "springs" so that is why they didn't base it on auto-leveling. Oh well....

Updates to follow Friday afternoon.

Looking forward to reading that "it's finally fixed and rides awesome". :D

Here is the updated alignment:

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_Y32a4PVf4jA/S3A_pXlzd4I/AAAAAAAADXg/juQ6lJV38aw/s800/IMG.jpg


The RQ has definitely gone up and the rear bounce/hop has gone away almost completely due to the "recommended" settings from Pops. At first I had to argue with them a little and they still did not get the numbers all near, but they have made significant improvements nonetheless.