I just had AEM install their new Brute Force intake system i my Armada. This is the same kit used on the Titan. Dyno gains on the Titan show the largest gain of 17.9 whp around 3750 rpm and 25lbs of torque around 3750 rpm. THe kit comes chrome with a heat shield and a large filter. I will have pics soon. http://trucks.aempower.com/product_intake.asp

How much was the intake or were you used as a test?

My Armada was used as a test vehicle so it was free. The cost MSRP is like $360 but I'm sure you can get for alot less than that.

Now -- if only we could get side-by-side dyno runs to compare the available intakes. I'm waiting for conclusive evidence of which provides the best performance gains before pulling the trigger. I'd like to see the same exercise done with the available exhausts... :cool:

here you go campare....

http://trucks.aempower.com/pdf/dyno/21-8502%2004%20Titan%20BFS.pdf

Notice no data below 3000 rpm. Wonder if that is because there is a power loss at lower rpms? And, where do you spend most of your time? Above or below 3000 rpm? Especially when you tow!

Keith

here you go campare....

http://trucks.aempower.com/pdf/dyno/21-8502%2004%20Titan%20BFS.pdf

Thanks -- couple of comments. Would like to see this same plot with other manufacturers overlaid on top.

Keith has a great point -- where are the figures at the low rpms -- worried about losing torque there -- although I think this problem has occurred mostly with aftermarket exhausts.

More importantly, and maybe I'm missing something why aren't we hitting even the quoted numbers from Nissan?? What am I forgetting?

More importantly, and maybe I'm missing something why aren't we hitting even the quoted numbers from Nissan?? What am I forgetting?

I think it is showing the HP at the rear wheels and not the crank....you are seeing the drive train losses. I'm not much of a gear head but that's how I've explained it to myself :)

How about those pics?

Also, how has your performance been? Any problems with the ECU, or anything else for that matter?

Thanks!

I will have pics by this weekend.
No CEL. performance seems really good,better throttle response.
Keep in mind that the dyno is from a titan and not an armada, although the share the same power train the exhaust sytem may differ enough to make a differense and the ECU may be programmed a little different (different shift points etc.)

Good info here. On the pdf that shows OEM vs. AEM, the 3100 rpm concerns me.
Even cruising on the freeway at 80mph, Armada is barely running at 2,000rpm. Plenty of Torque.

My fear is to lose any of this low end torque where we spent 90% of our time there. There is very little data on intake and exhaust below 3,000rpm.

WHY????

THis is probably the most important rpm's we need to see.

$363 does seem a bit high -- the K&N can be had for much less -- not sure about the Volant.

I'm also interested in why we see that anomaly in the region between 2950 and 3150 rpms?? That seems odd to have a drop in hp and torque like that?? Any experts here that can offer an explanation to this??? This doesn't seem like a good thing.

Thought I'd bump this -- since we should be hearing about performance from the Volant install soon. Any further feedback -- satisfied or not ?? with the AEM??

i'm happy with the AEM intake.

I'm also interested in why we see that anomaly in the region between 2950 and 3150 rpms?? That seems odd to have a drop in hp and torque like that?? Any experts here that can offer an explanation to this??? This doesn't seem like a good thing.

I am the engineer responsible for designing this kit. As for that dip early in the curve, there is a simple explanation. The Titan dyno'ed had, of course, an automatic transmission. ATs can cause some problems at the begining of a dyno run. Before the run, the throttle is closed, as soon as the run starts, the throttle is punched and sometimes the torque converter slips or locks at the begining of the run. This causes inconsistencies in the begining of the dyno chart. That is what happened when the AEM intake was dyno'ed. I have driven the Titan with the intake installed, and believe me, you have not lost any low end power with it installed. Ask morpheus if you don't believe me. I would have prefered to dyno a manual Titan, but those don't exist. An MT offers more consistant dyno charts.

Hope this helps.

Thanks guys!!!

I am the engineer responsible for designing this kit. As for that dip early in the curve, there is a simple explanation. The Titan dyno'ed had, of course, an automatic transmission. ATs can cause some problems at the begining of a dyno run. Before the run, the throttle is closed, as soon as the run starts, the throttle is punched and sometimes the torque converter slips or locks at the begining of the run. This causes inconsistencies in the begining of the dyno chart. That is what happened when the AEM intake was dyno'ed. I have driven the Titan with the intake installed, and believe me, you have not lost any low end power with it installed. Ask morpheus if you don't believe me. I would have prefered to dyno a manual Titan, but those don't exist. An MT offers more consistant dyno charts.

Hope this helps.

Thanks guys!!!


I agree with AEMTech, there is no loss in the lower RPMs according to the old "butt dyno". When I got on the the freeway for the first time after the intake was installed, I was able to really feel the difference and I love growl it make when you get on the accelerator.

Pictures in yet??

I am the engineer responsible for designing this kit. As for that dip early in the curve, there is a simple explanation. The Titan dyno'ed had, of course, an automatic transmission. ATs can cause some problems at the begining of a dyno run. Before the run, the throttle is closed, as soon as the run starts, the throttle is punched and sometimes the torque converter slips or locks at the begining of the run. This causes inconsistencies in the begining of the dyno chart. That is what happened when the AEM intake was dyno'ed. I have driven the Titan with the intake installed, and believe me, you have not lost any low end power with it installed. Ask morpheus if you don't believe me. I would have prefered to dyno a manual Titan, but those don't exist. An MT offers more consistant dyno charts.

Hope this helps.

Thanks guys!!!

Why no data below 3000 rpm?

Keith

I am the engineer responsible for designing this kit. As for that dip early in the curve, there is a simple explanation. The Titan dyno'ed had, of course, an automatic transmission. ATs can cause some problems at the begining of a dyno run. Before the run, the throttle is closed, as soon as the run starts, the throttle is punched and sometimes the torque converter slips or locks at the begining of the run. This causes inconsistencies in the begining of the dyno chart. That is what happened when the AEM intake was dyno'ed. I have driven the Titan with the intake installed, and believe me, you have not lost any low end power with it installed. Ask morpheus if you don't believe me. I would have prefered to dyno a manual Titan, but those don't exist. An MT offers more consistant dyno charts.

Hope this helps.

Thanks guys!!!



Thanks for taking the time to respond Damon -- it's great to be able to get some info directly from the engineers. Would love to see more of that.

I dont mean to hijack this thread but....Damon, I know AEM was making big brake kits for other vehicles, any chance that your company might make a kit for the Armada considering all the problems with the stock brakes? :o

No, I'm sorry, we sold our performance brake line of products.

http://www.aempower.com/press_events_detail.asp?aid=42

Hey AEMTech how bout helping us get our site sponsored by AEM
M4ck

AEMTech, when is the AEM Intake going to be available. I'm shopping now for the Volant and would love to have more info to go by.
I went to the AEM website and it's still pending.
Thanks

AEM is looking for an 05 Armada for test fitting. Car must be in the Los Angeles area. The car will be needed for a day. If you have any questions or comments please e-mail me at aflores@aempower.com thank you.

AEM
2205 126 th St.
Hawthorne CA, 90250

For all those intrested I decided to finally post a pic of the AEM intake since there wasn't anyone else doing it.... :)

Also I got mine from ebay for $236 polished....

I'm still concerned about the difference in low end performance between the stock intake and the AEM on their posted dyno run. I appreciate the AEM engineer explanation, but wouldn't that tranny issue show up in both runs? It shouldn't be limited to just the AEM. And wouldn't it be better to do several runs and average them? There can be a 10 horse difference on the same setup run back to back with no equipment change.

I don't know how AEM would be noticably superior to Volant and K&N.

I have a simple little $300 accelerometer (G-Tech Pro Competition) and play around with it a bit. The best gains, on average for a K&N drop in over the stock air filter is 2 horses, and I suspect that is within the margin of error, but it is consistent.

The best gains I am getting with a first generation K&N Aircharger are in the 8-10 horsepower range (all of this is at the rear wheels).

And, again, you can get this much variation from run to run without changing a thing, so it takes a series of runs under identical conditions and the averaging of them, IMHO before you can reliably demonstrate gains.

These runs, back in April when the weather was cool, show almost the same peak horsepower as your test vehicle in stock mode, but as much peak torque as the AEM test truck with the AEM Brute in place. However my torque curve does differ considerably from either AEM run, stock or modified, in that mine does drop off faster from peak than either of theirs. I don't know the reason for that.

I cannot get reading on this equipment for lower rpm unless I back out of the run early and then try to splice the runs together in the same chart. I may try that.

BTW accelerometers tend to read low in comparison to a chassis dyno because the testing is done at actual speed on the road and aerodynamics and wind resistance are involved, conditions not present on a chassis dyno.

My truck was using the K&N drop in that day and not the Aircharger.

I am in South Central PA, Just hook me up and we can test my AEM install :D


I'm still concerned about the difference in low end performance between the stock intake and the AEM on their posted dyno run. I appreciate the AEM engineer explanation, but wouldn't that tranny issue show up in both runs? It shouldn't be limited to just the AEM. And wouldn't it be better to do several runs and average them? There can be a 10 horse difference on the same setup run back to back with no equipment change.

I don't know how AEM would be noticably superior to Volant and K&N.

I have a simple little $300 accelerometer (G-Tech Pro Competition) and play around with it a bit. The best gains, on average for a K&N drop in over the stock air filter is 2 horses, and I suspect that is within the margin of error, but it is consistent.

The best gains I am getting with a first generation K&N Aircharger are in the 8-10 horsepower range (all of this is at the rear wheels).

And, again, you can get this much variation from run to run without changing a thing, so it takes a series of runs under identical conditions and the averaging of them, IMHO before you can reliably demonstrate gains.

These runs, back in April when the weather was cool, show almost the same peak horsepower as your test vehicle in stock mode, but as much peak torque as the AEM test truck with the AEM Brute in place. However my torque curve does differ considerably from either AEM run, stock or modified, in that mine does drop off faster from peak than either of theirs. I don't know the reason for that.

I cannot get reading on this equipment for lower rpm unless I back out of the run early and then try to splice the runs together in the same chart. I may try that.

BTW accelerometers tend to read low in comparison to a chassis dyno because the testing is done at actual speed on the road and aerodynamics and wind resistance are involved, conditions not present on a chassis dyno.

My truck was using the K&N drop in that day and not the Aircharger.

Thought I'd let y'all know I installed the AEM kit on our QX56 last week. Nothing but gains as far as I can report: response, SOUND...excellent kit. Have put about 300-400 miles since install and no anomolies to report. This is a must do if you care anything about performance.

Scott

whats your mpg at zrmann?

whats your mpg at zrmann?
Interesting you should ask. I just had my first opportunity in the vehicle tonight to check it! My wife is the primary driver of this vehicle and has driven all week since the install. When I flipped to the trip monitor, it read 17.1 mpg. It's never been that high, and she does a mix of highway and around town driving. Typcially, I would see around 15.6 to 16.0. I'm going to reset it tomorrow and track. So, we may have picked up better than 2-3 mpg in order for the average over the last 700 or 800 miles to have been a little more than 15 but the driving just in the last week, approx 300 miles, to have risen the overall to 17.1. I really didn't anticipate too much but hey these days I'll take any little gain. For the record, that is pretty much what I'd see when I checked the mpg in the FX45, and that is only 4-5 mpg worse than my 4 cyl Nissan Frontier!!

I'm pleased!

Scott

Here's an objective post from another board on before and after dyno runs on the AEM Brute Force. Please note that this is a chipped Toyota Tundra and not a Nissan Titan. However AEM said it would produce 15 horses more. The difference was 6-7 horses and just about no increase in torque. Here is the actual post. I can put up the link if anyone is interested. I remain skeptical. This does not seem much different than other intakes on the market.

AEM Brute Force Intake Update

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OK, I'm back from LA, and everything is installed and running fine. A BIG Thanks to AEM Power and Tundra Solutions for the intake!!

I'm working on a full write-up of everything, however, I know some of you want some fast info so here's the quick and dirty version:

Before - 3 run average
202.1 HP @ 5000 RPM
267.9 lb/ft @ 3500 RPM

After - 3 run average
208.9 HP @ 5000 RPM
270.0 lb/ft @ 3500 RPM

The curves start to show noticeable separation around 3200 RPM for the HP and TQ curves, however, they start around 2750 RPM so don't read a whole lot into that. More explanations to come.

Sound
Normal under cruising speeds, and light to moderate acceleration
Medium to heavy foot gets you a snarling growl that quickly builds to a loud roar. Sounds sweet!

Butt-Dyno = Not much change, though the RPM's seem to build more quickly and the power seems to come on more smoothly.
__________________
Randy
'04 CC LE White, Born on date 01/04, Tundra convert,
MODS: Unichip, Hellwig


Posted by:

Man, those horsepower numbers make me laugh. No way could I deal with a Toy-ota after driving the Armada around!

:)

Man, those horsepower numbers make me laugh. No way could I deal with a Toy-ota after driving the Armada around!

:)

Isn't that the truth! I did not post to intentionally slam the Tundra, and I'm not sure what year model it was. My intent was to raise doubts about the claims of aftermarket intake products (not just AEM, but it happens to be their product in question).

But now that you mention it, those numbers are pitiful. At least 50-60 horses down from our engines, maybe more. And that is with a Unichip, which is supposed to really help Toyota products and the intake.

A dyno isn't set to how you a full RPM range of numbers. A dyno is run to give you peak HP and TQ numbers. The change the rpm range that it will pick up per the vehicle.

For the Armada they know that it will do it's peak numbers somewhere after 3000 rpms. You will find relatively low HP and TQ numbers at low rpms. For instance if you were going to dyno a Honda V-Tec engine....your dyno would be from 5k up....them engines are designed to do 9k in there rpm range. That variable valve stuff seems to be working for them....I think they have three stages now.

Man, those horsepower numbers make me laugh. No way could I deal with a Toy-ota after driving the Armada around!

:)
What do you expect? Smallest motor in the class it is only a 7/8 size to begin with. Same size motor as the middle size Jeep Grand Cherokee motor. In '07 maybe they will make something worth looking at but for me, the last TOYota worth a look was the old Supra Turbo. Been almost a decade since there has been a fast TOY. :rolleyes:

As for intakes, they shouldn't add anything. Mods are only as good as the weakest link. Intakes are rarely the weakest unless you have heavily modified the rest of the engine systems.

I should start by saying that I was cracking up at the Toyo horsepower comments. I had a 91 4 Runner with a V6 that put out 150hp! I had a 4x4 with all terrain tires, so there was significant planning required to pass someone on the freeway.

Anyway, does anyone have experience running the AEM Brute Force with Borla Exhaust on an Armada? I just do not want to run into a situation where by adding expensive extras, I wind up loosing HP or worse yet, screw reliability up!

Thanks

After reading the AEM engineer's comments on the Brute Force intake, I bought it and had it installed today. What a difference in punch! I REALLY see a difference.

There was some increase in HP with the Borla system and I felt it, but I was NOT going to post a message lying to you all that I was chirping into second gear. I AM posting this to say that this particular combination really set the truck off.

One downside is that when you lay on it you HEAR that intake man. Driving the car moderately (most of the time for me) you do not hear the intake at all or a lot of exhaust howl. As in, I am not ashamed to drive it in my neighborhood. Step on it though, and the thing sounds scary. I actually started laughing at how muscle car it sounded.

After reading the AEM engineer's comments on the Brute Force intake, I bought it and had it installed today. What a difference in punch! I REALLY see a difference.

There was some increase in HP with the Borla system and I felt it, but I was NOT going to post a message lying to you all that I was chirping into second gear. I AM posting this to say that this particular combination really set the truck off.

One downside is that when you lay on it you HEAR that intake man. Driving the car moderately (most of the time for me) you do not hear the intake at all or a lot of exhaust howl. As in, I am not ashamed to drive it in my neighborhood. Step on it though, and the thing sounds scary. I actually started laughing at how muscle car it sounded.
Sounds killer - can you post a link to the AEM comments? Is it on their web site? Thanks!