Does anyone know the manufacturer or type of limited slip the truck uses. I'm just curious.

There is no true limited slip diff in the Arnada or Titans. You have BLSD, where the VDC controls wheel slipage by applying the brake to the slipping wheel, or E-Locker which lockes the diff.

Does any manufacturer make an E-locker rear diff for the 4X2 Armada?

Does any manufacturer make an E-locker rear diff for the 4X2 Armada?
Not that I am aware of.

Detroit just release the True Trac for the Titan, is the Armada rear diff. the same?

Detroit just release the True Trac for the Titan, is the Armada rear diff. the same?
Not really. The internals may be, but I'm not sure. The rear axel is different and I think the rear is also, but it might just be the housing and not the gears. I'd call True Trac.

I've used the ABLS on the Armada offroad and it works quite well. If I were tracking the car it would probably overheat the brake fluid but I doubt I'll be tracking the Armada!

-mike

The TruTrac unit for the Titan will not fit the Armada. There is no TruTrac produced for the Armada, and there are no plans at this time to produce one.

The TruTrac unit for the Titan will not fit the Armada. There is no TruTrac produced for the Armada, and there are no plans at this time to produce one.

And honestly no need for one. If anyone can show me where a locker would do better than the ABLS in situations that the Armada would be I'd be interested. Cause those side steps are gonna hang up before you need a locker.

-mike

the armada has a read diff locker? is yes how does it engage

And honestly no need for one. If anyone can show me where a locker would do better than the ABLS in situations that the Armada would be I'd be interested. Cause those side steps are gonna hang up before you need a locker.

-mike
The TrueTrac is not a locker; it is a true limited slip. It allows full power to each wheel, but is still a differential. The locker locks the differential action, and can't be used on dry, hard surfaces. The TrueTrac works under all conditions, and full power is delivered, rather than engaging the brakes to the slipping wheel as ABLS does.
ALBS works quite well in many conditions, but it is not the equal of a real limited slip differential.

The TrueTrac is not a locker; it is a true limited slip. It allows full power to each wheel, but is still a differential. The locker locks the differential action, and can't be used on dry, hard surfaces. The TrueTrac works under all conditions, and full power is delivered, rather than engaging the brakes to the slipping wheel as ABLS does.
ALBS works quite well in many conditions, but it is not the equal of a real limited slip differential.

If I remember right (Detroit has prolly 6-more different traction aids), the True Track is a clutch pack Limited Slip Differential (just for info). It's not 100% locked at anytime, under load or not. The clutch packs will still slip. It is a HUGE improvement over an open diff, and should be the first consideration for someone who spends less than 2/3rds their driving time off road.

The e-locker that is equipped in some Titans is an electronicaly actuated locker that when locked, acts as a one piece solid axle through the housing, both tires turn at the same rate. The downside to having it locked on the street, is when you turn a corner one tire is going to drag. This increases tire wear, and can induce understeer in hard and dry conditions, and oversteer in hard and slick conditions. I'm thinking I heard early on that the locker unit in the Titans was from EATON.

From all reports I've heard on the e-locker (aftermarket) from Eaton is that it is a GREAT system. It's truly (IMHO) the best of both worlds. Hard locked diff when engaged and an open for running on the street only on when you need it.

Just some additional info since I was bored.

The Titan TruTrac does not use clutch pacs or the typical spider/side gears; it is a different design. See attached photo.

That is a Detroit Truetrac. that pic is off their site. I was thinking of the Eaton LSD. I was just all miscombobilatored.

http://www.detroitlocker.com/ProductsPage.htm

I don't quite understand how that one works yet, still working on my physics degree....

The locker right above it, the electrac, is what I would like to put in my Dodge truck, I'll probably end up with a classic Detroit though. Once the 38s go on, she won't see much road use.

The TrueTrac is not a locker; it is a true limited slip. It allows full power to each wheel, but is still a differential. The locker locks the differential action, and can't be used on dry, hard surfaces. The TrueTrac works under all conditions, and full power is delivered, rather than engaging the brakes to the slipping wheel as ABLS does.
ALBS works quite well in many conditions, but it is not the equal of a real limited slip differential.

Actually ABLS would not cut any power. With an open diffy if you apply the brake to the slipping wheel 100% of the power is sent to the other wheel. You'll have a tiny loss on initial engagement but not enough to really matter considering the power these trucks have.

I still don't see any point to a locker or LSD on these trucks unless you are heavily modifying it for offroading and even then you have a long way to go before you need a locker! Not to mention our trucks are a bit too large to really offroad too seriously.

-mike

I called dana on the diffs looking for lockers for the armada. One of the diffs (I don't have my notes with me) is proprietary Nissan, aluminum case. No lockers are available and the housing won't support the torque if there were (Dana Rep). The other diff is the basically the same as they use in Fords, again, aluminum case, and again it won't take the torque of a locker. They are basically equivalent to Dana 44's. I wish they had gone with the Dana 50 irs which they built for the corvette and which is much stronger and has both many gears selections and lockers available. One mada diff was a Rear R230 model and I think the other mada diff was a front M205, confirmed.
When you need lockers, you need lockers, damage is a secondary thought.

I'd be really surprised if anyone really needs lockers on their Armada. I can speak from experience when I say that if you get this beast stuck, I seriously doubt it will be anything that a locker could've helped you out of. Kind of a cheesy example, but here's some treads I laid down that show a little about how our rear diffs work. I have flung some serious dirt and some mud and I have no disappointments in our traction abilities and I think that anyone who tries the Armada out offroad will agree. On these SUV's, I believe that good traction Tires make much more of a difference than a adding a diff-locker. Just my $.02.


http://www.clubarmada.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=5418&stc=1&d=1194122243

I checked my notes- the diffs are: Dana M205 in the front and Dana R230 in the rear. As for getting stuck, BTDT, see my other post. And if you end up more than a 3hrs walk from help, and stuck, you absolutely don't want your car making any decisions for you. I would gladly sacrifice 1 diff and an axle more to get unstuck from a few places I've been (in the US). My buddy has a locked jeep and was out in Moab... He broke the rear diff (shattered) and used 4whl, locked front to drag his sorry behind out (20 miles). Murphy rides with me routinely, so I plan for the worst, hope for the best...

So tell me about your experiences in deep sand?

Reviving this thread. I think I might have found an ARB Air-Locker that might possibly work.

It's the ARB RD137

R230,33 spline,IRS - 33.3 (1.31") - 33 - 3.54 & UP - RD137

M226,32 spline,10 bolt RG - 32 - All - RD149

http://dedq15.mindfly.com/uploads/PDF/onlineManualsGuides/airLockerAppsUSA.pdf


Some details: http://www.arbusa.com/Products/Air-Lockers/10.aspx

Sorry, nothing like a newbie resurrecting an old thread. Pop's post above is probably the ticket for the rock hounds and the mudders. The TruTrac posted earlier caught my eye. I found a UK manufacturer, Quaife, that offers an almost exact type helically cut gear diff for the R230.

http://www.quaife-differentials.com/quaife-differentials-brochure.pdf

If I end up with a two wheeler, I will consider one of these options. The TruTrac and Quaife units are interesting because they require no special pneumatics, hydraulics or maintenance.

Enjoy,

Surfinmutt

There is no TruTrac unit for the Armada, and there is no plan to make one. The Titan unit won't fit the Armada.

Hey Steve, checkout the last page of that PDF Surfinmutt linked to. It says there is a Quaife ATB (model: QDF12L) that they custom make for the Nissan R230 rear diff. If F4N4EVR's info applies to all Armadas, do you think it looks like it might possibly work?? If it could work , then that looks like it might be an alternative to Trutrac for us.

Bob, it looks like that unit may work.

But the locker you found won't work with either of the stock gear ratios. Due to the gear offset, the ratio must be 3.54 or numerical higher. It won't work with the 2.94 or 3.36 gears. The larger diameter pinion with these ratios offset the ring gear farther than the locker will accept.

Gotcha, so the Quaife is really our only possible locker for now.

Guys, I went to sleep last night thinking about geared limited slip differentials. Yup, the wife thinks I'm plenty weird. Anyway, a torsen is another example of a geared limited slip. They probably share the same characteristics, good and bad.

The good is that they are silky smooth compared to clutch types and last much longer. The bad is that they depend completely on torque, if I'm not mistaken. As long as some torque is sensed on both sides, the system will inherrently try to equalize. Which is a beautiful thing, until one of the sides see zero, or a patch of ice or you lift a wheel, then the whole system distributes zero torque, or acts like an open diff.

Now the news is not all bad though, because the Armada/QX system has ABLS which I believe will catch the side that spins and provide the torque value necessary for the system to redistribute torque evenly. So that wet boat ramp where electronic traction controls cause trucks to dance may be damped enough to change the situation. This is my guess and I'm looking for what the collective brain power thinks.

Torsen differentials are popular with high powered front wheel drive cars because the torque buffering will greatly attenuate torque steer.

If I take this information and digest it all, then geared limited slip differentials are probably optimized for tractive surfaces like asphalt. Off road might be another story. All bets are off if you lift a wheel since you will have to rely on ABLS. Mud, grass, sand and dirt should be okay as long as the surface isn't too uneven. The system may buffer torque enough to keep you from loosing traction some of the time.

All who have been off road knows that keeping moving is the name of the game.

The wife thinks I think about things too much and is probably right. I really am interested in what y'all think. Should I go out and buy a pocket protector? I will try to do some online research later today. If I find anything, I will surely post it, if there is interest.

Chime in guys,

Surfinmutt

Did some research. The Quaife is indeed related to the Torsen differential. Most all publications specifically point out that they are not technically referred to as a limited slip but as an ATB or auto torque biasing. No publication points out the exact differences but the drawings show that the worm gears are oriented differently.

I found two good technical documents. Wikipedia is a good start and as always, gives a historical perspective.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited_slip_differential

I found the next link was some guy who had a ton of knowledge and decided to put it down on digital ink.

http://www.houseofthud.com/differentials.htm

If you pump Quaife vs Torsen in a search engine, you will get a ton of hits. The online consensus seems to agree that the Quaife is the superior design. It seems that the Quaife will apportion torque in more situations than the Torsen.

Indeed, opinions seem to also agree that an electronic traction aid like ABLS and an ATB unit like the Quaife are a perfect marriage.

Surfinmutt

Isn't our center differential 'locking', or rather, fixed front to rear. If so, if one end loses traction, isn't the other end unaffected?

Isn't our center differential 'locking', or rather, fixed front to rear. If so, if one end loses traction, isn't the other end unaffected?

Yes, but with the front diff open and the rear diff open, it's still 2wd. You get one front wheel spinning and one rear wheel spinning and that's where ABLS kicks in. ABLS tries to lock the spinning wheel so the power is redristubuted to the wheel that has traction. I'm really impressed with our ABLS but it does cause a slow doen rather than assisting with it speeding up, that's where a diff locker can help out. Not to mention that a diff locker is stronger by design than using the brakes for traction control.

The ABLS would prevent spinning all fours. However, with the center 'locked' it would allow you to move with one diff blown, a problem indicated in an earlier post. That assumes the blown diff isn't locked with debris.

The ABLS would prevent spinning all fours. However, with the center 'locked' it would allow you to move with one diff blown, a problem indicated in an earlier post. That assumes the blown diff isn't locked with debris.

If it blows, it'll likely be locked with debris that will tear up the remaining compnents if spinning. To be honest, the only reason I'd be interested in a diff locker would be to assist the ABLS in offroad muddy situations.

See, when you're in mud, you need as much momentum as you can get so when ABLS kicks in on a slipping tire, it actually slows your momentum down close to the speed of the slow moving tire. So in that situation, you have to be very aware of it and romp on the gas pedal to get the slow spinning tire up to speed with the others. One slight delay in romping the gas pedal can get you stuck within a split second. I'm pretty sure that deep snow would be a very similar situation.

We don't have a center differential. There isn't a differential or viscous coupling in the transfer case. That's why we don't have AWD, and why we can't run 4WD on dry surfaces.

We don't have a center differential. There isn't a differential or viscous coupling in the transfer case. That's why we don't have AWD, and why we can't run 4WD on dry surfaces.

But doesn't it act the same as if it were a locked differential??

While the transfer case is technically not a differential (there is no differential speed between the output shafts) it is common practice to call it a 'center differential'. Most short track stock cars have either a solid spool, spider gear replacement solid 'mini-spool', or welded spider gears. However, they are also still called differentials.

But doesn't it act the same as if it were a locked differential??

Yes, it does.