Armada Towing [Archive] - Nissan Armada Forum: Armada & Infiniti QX56 Forums

Cillyone

06-20-2005, 10:11 PM

branjor, its hard for me to say because I tow a 2124LX Rage’n toybox that is very heavy (+6k empty) for a trailer with only a 21’ body (24’ overall), it is built like a tank (I encounter roof "snow loads" sometimes). I have had it loaded (one time) close to the 9k limits and I won’t do it again. I try to keep it below 8k, at least until I get another ¾ ton truck. The high tongue weight made the air suspension pump up rigid with virtually no travel and the handling was not the greatest. If kept near or below 8k things are just fine. The extra length that you have (sail area) might be an issue in windy conditions. I have had zero problems with cross winds with my trailer length. I have heard many people report a Hensley arrow hitch ($$$) makes it possible to tow large trailers safely, but I have no personal experience. I might suggest trying RV.net forum and post your question, but be prepared for some of the “diesel dually holier than thou crowd” to preach that you need a 5 ton truck to tow a pop-up camper. There are some really good folks at that forum that have a lot of experience though. I bet you can find another Armada towing a trailer that big there and PM them. Good luck

PS, look at post #15 in this thread, he is towing a 28' TT

scr38

06-20-2005, 11:59 PM

Hello all. I'm new to the web site (and a new '05 Armada owner). I just installed a Reese Class IV hitch and am having trouble with the trailer lights. I didn't get the tow package. I bought a T-connector to tie into the wiring harness, but no lights. I recently read the T-harness only works if you have a factory 7-way. Is that correct? If not, is there any thing else I need to do to get the lights hooked up. I'm trying to tow my bike for vacation this weekend, and thanks to UPS losing the first shipment, I'm behind the power curve for getting everything hooked up. If anyone can help, I would greatly appreciate it.

Blair
Did you get your lights working? There is a relay that you have to add (it plugs in) to get power to the wiring for the running lights. Post back if you need help with this.

branjor

07-12-2005, 04:16 PM

We have finalized a price and option package with a local Jayco dealer and are taking our new Jayflight 29 BHS for a test pull Thursday! How has your TT been? Towing still as good as this post indicates? I got the Reese dual cam anti sway and load distribution hitch so I am hoping it goes well.
Why the change to 17" tires?

Just in case anyone was wondering...
I must admit that this is one of the best towing vehicles I have ever owned. I was pulling my Jayco 29BHS this weekend (total weight of 7K) into a 25-30 mph headwind on the interstate. My father was following behind me with his 2002 Dodge Ram with his Thor 27 footer. I kept pulling away with no problems. Kept it at 62 MPH and got 9.5-10MPG. Gotta love it.
My 315 70 R17's are going on Friday and I hope to figure out how to post some pics. But I am really impressed with this vehicle.
Syko

SykoArmada

07-12-2005, 09:52 PM

You and I should have the same TT. My Armada is an SE off-road so it came with the 17inch wheels. I just upgraded the tire size and load range of the tire. I have the dual cam sway control from Reese and it is just fine.
I was pulling from Rhinelander WI, to Manitowoc WI with the A/C on in 90 degree heat with no issues.
Any more questions let me know.
Syko :2cool:

branjor

07-13-2005, 11:06 AM

I have an LE so it came with 18" tires. I am glad to hear it is still towing well especially given that we have the same hitch. We are really looking forward to getting it out this summer.

I am also hoping to get down into CA next summer. I live in Canada, but have an office in Carlsbad, CA (we supply the US Military with cooling vests for the troops in Iraq). Heading down the coast will be great.

You and I should have the same TT. My Armada is an SE off-road so it came with the 17inch wheels. I just upgraded the tire size and load range of the tire. I have the dual cam sway control from Reese and it is just fine.
I was pulling from Rhinelander WI, to Manitowoc WI with the A/C on in 90 degree heat with no issues.
Any more questions let me know.
Syko :2cool:

Targa Florio

07-17-2005, 09:21 PM

I pulled a 24' Haulmark (3900 lbs empty) with a 3300lb race car and some gear 1500 miles this month. Drove the recommended 50 mph for the first 500 miles, then ran at 70 mph without a problem. Mileage sucks - maybe 9 mpg - but no heat, no hesitation. I'm happy.

Mike
Alexandria VA

BRE Armada

07-28-2005, 06:03 PM

I am in the same situation as Mike, I will be using my Armada to pull my race trailer.

jmhouse

08-01-2005, 06:16 PM

Just got back from my first major road-trip (5500 miles total!). I towed a Fleetwood Prowler 300FQS the entire time. Started in Chicago and went to Grand Canyon, Sequoia, and Yosemite. The towing was great! There were only a couple of times I needed to cycle the A/C to cool the engine (once was going through the desert at 116 degrees with a KILLER headwind, and the other was climing the 6% grade into the Sequoia's during 106 degree heat). I will post a more accurate travel log later, and a pic of my setup. On the way home I decided to stop at a weigh-station and found out I was at a total weight (car/cargo and trailer) of 15,620lbs!

The Armada is one tough beast!!!!

fred_vee

08-02-2005, 03:24 PM

I have an LE so it came with 18" tires. I am glad to hear it is still towing well especially given that we have the same hitch. We are really looking forward to getting it out this summer.

I am also hoping to get down into CA next summer. I live in Canada, but have an office in Carlsbad, CA (we supply the US Military with cooling vests for the troops in Iraq). Heading down the coast will be great.
Hey, branjor did you ever get down to CA? We went from Bakersfield CA to Pacific City OR (most of the way to Canada) the first two weeks of August. A really good towing experience, especially since we are towing a low-profile tent trailer that is about 22 feet from hitch to back bumper and maybe 2750# fully loaded. Hardly knew it was there most of the time and got 12 to maybe 15 MPG. If I hadn't been changing trailer tires so much, I would have probably opened it up more on the road and enjoyed the tow more. As is, the "short" wheelbase helped going around tight corners and getting into our campsite in between some big trees.

armoody

08-03-2005, 02:00 AM

WILDnPHX

08-08-2005, 01:36 PM

jmhouse

08-08-2005, 03:54 PM

Darn with a rig that big you probally had to take the picture from a mile away to fit the whole thing in. :) Nice Picture I like it. Is it me or does it appear as though the Armada is sagging a bit in the rear?

The Armada was turned off, so the airbags in the rear are deflated. That was one of the many things I was impressed with....the fact that there was no sagging at all!

Jeff

WILDnPHX

08-08-2005, 04:20 PM

The Armada was turned off, so the airbags in the rear are deflated. That was one of the many things I was impressed with....the fact that there was no sagging at all!

Jeff

I always thought mine aired up with or without the truck running... I have seen people say both before as well, some say they need that you don't have to have the vehicle running and others say you do, whats the real truth? So if you do have to have the vehicle running then that would mean everytime you stop on your trip to get gas or get a bite to eat the rear would let out the air then air back up when the vehicle started?

scr38

08-08-2005, 04:23 PM

The shocks should remain pressurized with the engine off. If they loose air there is a leak in the system.

jmhouse

08-08-2005, 11:37 PM

The shocks should remain pressurized with the engine off. If they loose air there is a leak in the system.

I must have a leak then. When unhooking at a campsite I noticed that with the engine running the height was still there. I had trouble because of the parking angle and I couldn't crank my trailer up high enough to disconnect. Once I turned the car off I had a 3 inch space!

I'll have the dealer check it out.

Jeff

m3bs

08-20-2005, 01:30 PM

Cillyone

08-23-2005, 02:13 AM

I don't know for sure but that sounds like too much of a drop.

inqui-Z-tor

08-23-2005, 10:02 AM

I just purchased an '05 LE to tow my Featherlite open car trailer around. It looks like I will need a ball mount with an 8" drop to get the trailer level. Anybody else have experience with this combination?

The trailer used to ride about 2" high in front with my Expedition using a 2" drop ball mount, but the receiver on the Armada is a full 4" higher.

Featherlite? Which model? How long? Can you post a pic?
I'm looking at get'n a car trailer ... just want to see what others have got .. pros/cons .. etc ..

sinnerFA

08-23-2005, 11:07 AM

Whoaa! I've never seen an Armada look so small. That is one honkin' trailer. That's some nice accommodations! 15,620, and yes that included the kitchen sink :D
All I'm towing is a 19' boat (see pic) and the Armada still looks pretty big.

Stop towing that toy boat around... :D

It's funny how small the Armada make sother things look...

Campfamily

08-23-2005, 03:14 PM

The Armada was turned off, so the airbags in the rear are deflated. That was one of the many things I was impressed with....the fact that there was no sagging at all!

Jeff

Jeff - what type of weight distribution equipment are you using? If set up correctly, you shouldn't see any sag in the back, with or without the load leveling setup. The weight distribution should make the tow vehicle sag equally in the front and the rear. In fact, one question I have never gotten answered was whether the load leveling system would actually cause the Armada to jack up the back end when a trailer is attached with a weight distribution setup (i.e., make the back higher than the front). Fortunately, my trailer tongue weight doesn't seem to be high enough (around 600 #'s) to really make a big difference, I seem to be pretty level with or without the load leveling. Without weight distribution, it will sag about an inch, which the load leveling handles easily.

Keith

Cillyone

08-23-2005, 10:16 PM

This last week I had to jockey my two trailers around and hitch and re-hitch a couple times. I moved my toybox and just pulled it around the block to park it out in front of my house. I towed it without the WD bars because I knew I had to un-hitch to move my utility trailer where the toybox was. Well, it was a learning experience; the WD bars make a huge difference! When I was going around the block at 15-20mph I was adjusting my brake controller and testing brakes. My youngest son (almost 13yr) was on his bike and he said the front wheels almost came off the ground a couple times when I was cycling the brake hard, and it felt like that behind the wheel.

jmhouse

08-25-2005, 04:46 PM

Jeff - what type of weight distribution equipment are you using? If set up correctly, you shouldn't see any sag in the back, with or without the load leveling setup. The weight distribution should make the tow vehicle sag equally in the front and the rear. In fact, one question I have never gotten answered was whether the load leveling system would actually cause the Armada to jack up the back end when a trailer is attached with a weight distribution setup (i.e., make the back higher than the front). Fortunately, my trailer tongue weight doesn't seem to be high enough (around 600 #'s) to really make a big difference, I seem to be pretty level with or without the load leveling. Without weight distribution, it will sag about an inch, which the load leveling handles easily.

Keith

My rig only has load leveling bars, with anti-sway control. No weight distribution. I believe that any pitch that is showing in the pic was from the terrain. I do believe that when my mada is off that the rear bags do deflate. I still don't know if this is normal.

Jeff

m3bs

09-23-2005, 12:39 PM

I have a trailer with a very low coupler (needed 8" drop ball mount). The problem is, I can't get the jack wheel off the trailer if I'm on any sort of uneven surface. The ideal solution would be to have a way to pump up the air suspension on command, then return it to auto mode. This would also help avoid scraping when getting my track car off the trailer.

Anybody looked into this?

wwjdwithca

10-02-2005, 12:20 AM

Pulled my 3000 lb boat today. Didn't make any major hillclimbs cause I went to a local lake, but I did make some minor climbs.

I bought an Armada cause I wanted a vehicle that would make my difficult pulls with my Minivan into to relatively easy tows. Big deal around here since many of my pulls are 250-300 miles with as much as 4500 ft elevation climbs.

Anyway, my Armada passed phase 1 with flying colors! 70 mph and got about 10 mpg (which is what my minivan got at 55 mph). Passing was easy. The Armada just "really enjoyed" pulling my boat, and I was just comfortable as a clam, no more white knuckling. Passengers were all very comfortable, and were really completely unaware that I was even towing a 3000 lb trailer.

Back-up cam is simply awesome as well. Hooking-up was so easy I can't get over it, and aiding in empty trailer back-up was slick!

Outside air temp was 92 degrees and transmission temp was very cool.

The Armada was definitely "Born to Tow" from my low elevation experience. Next month I'll be going into the mts.

Cool_armada

10-11-2005, 03:20 PM

Hello to who looking for LOWERING SPRINGS for armada take look at this http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/INTRAX-LOWERING-SPRINGS-NISSAN-ARMADA-04-05-BRAND-NEW_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33582QQitemZ8006172 516QQrdZ1

NTB

10-26-2005, 06:46 AM

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/4/web/652000-652999/652272_31_full.jpg

2004 Armada LE 4*4 Pulling a 2005 SeaRay Sundeck 270, 8000 pounds plus.

adjmcloon

10-26-2005, 09:27 AM

Now that's a boat!

Brian S

10-28-2005, 11:49 AM

I tow a 34 foot Keystone Cougar with 2 slide outs with my 2005 Armada. The trailer weighs 9010 lbs fully loaded (I weighed it) and the Armada tows it like a dream. I live in the mountains of Western Maryland and there is no mountain on the Interstate that it wont tow that trailer up at 60 mph. I used to have a diesel Ford Excursion with a power programmer an towed a 7500 lb trailer but it didn't tow any better, just better gas mileage. The Armada only gets 6.5 mpg towing. The Excursion got 11 mpg towing the lighter trailer but the diesel fuel is about 40 cents more per gallon.

Sorcisto

10-30-2005, 04:54 PM

Been pulling a 32' MaxLite (approx 7500 Lbs) with no problems even in mountainous terrain. The trans temp rises to warm briefly every now and then but returns to average quickly. Best tow veh I have ever hadundefinedHey everyone, happy Easter.
Well the easter bunny came early and dropped off my new Jayco 29ft Travel Trailer. I was wondering if anyone else has attempted to pull something this size with our Armada's?
I have the 29ft Jayco Jay Flight (29BHS). Weighs in at 5600lbs empty. I towed it home today with a 30 plus mph wind and it handled well. I have a Reese class V weight distribution hitch with the class V cam type sway control.
I know it will do well, but here is the interesting part. The owner of the place where I bought it was having a hissy fit that I wanted to pull this trailer with a Nissan Armada. I almost walked out on this A$$ (had I not paid for it 3 months ago). He said the wheelbase is too short and wasn't going to be responsible for my actions.
I am sorry, the wheel base is almost identical to a Dodge Ram 1500. I don't think he had a clue as to what a Armada was let alone it's towing capabilities. Thanks for letting me vent, now its off to more adventures with the Armada and my new "home".
Hasta la vista, baby....
Syko
Syko Kustomz
Wisconsin
2004 Nissan Armada SE Off road
Big tow
Journey package
Galaxy :machinegu

wwjdwithca

11-15-2005, 11:49 PM

Took our 2005 Armada to Laughlin, NV from So Cal. We traveled with 5 passengers 675 miles over 4 days. This trip is a tremendous test of any tow vehicles capabilities. Several steep ascents, lots of straight and level over smooth and rough freeways, and one really long slow climb.

My boat weighs about 3000 lbs. 18' deep vee Baja with a 5.7 litre alpha 1 outdrive. Our Armada pulled it extremely well during the whole trip. 65 mph up christmas tree pass in third gear the whole way up the 7 mile ascent, approximately 3600 rpm. Temp gauge never went to half way. Ambient temp's only about 77 degrees, so much easier on truck than in summer where it goes over 110!

Long slow asscents were most impressive where many times it would never even drop out of overdrive. Averaged 13 mpg on the predominately downhill grade trip to Laughlin, and 12 mpg on the way back. Well done. I was able to complete the trip on one fill which is nice since it's a fairly long jaunt across the Mojave desert.

Ride was not great over rough, semi-beaten roads was about the only negative. Kids were able to stretch out great in the back. Watched lots of movies and had a great time. Navigation system was a tremendous traveling tool. Finding bathrooms, knowing exact location of journey, when we would arrive, re-routing trips was all a very nice feature.

I'm 6'2" and the truck was very comfortable over the long haul as well. Lot's of room to recline, and the chair held me in a good driving position were little effort was required. Was able to raise the chair, and recline it way back for maximum comfort.

Solid "A" overall. Ride quality on rough roads, and tire pressure warning consistantly popping-up when tires were not low (could only be over pressure condition) were only downgrades from an A+.

Cillyone

11-16-2005, 12:38 AM

The self leveling rear suspension is nice but it can stiffen up the ride a whole bunch. When I have had 8-900lbs of tongue weight on it reduces the rear suspension to nearly rigid, riding in the third row will nearly rattle your teeth out.

adjmcloon

11-16-2005, 09:28 AM

I love the leveling suspension too, but sometimes it's a tad bit annoying when you have a very heavy load. Recently when I was towing 11k pounds back from Lowes (shingles) I had to try to unhitch and then wait 5 minutes or so for the rear end to drop back to normal. Overall it seems to be worth it though. My poor old Tahoe would have blown up had I tried to tow that much weight with it.

alcadiente

11-21-2005, 08:12 AM

I have the same Armada 2004 SE 4x4 Big Tow with Gibson Cat Back and Drop In K&N air filter. I tow my 21foot Toy Hauler that is 8200lbs fully loaded (toys, water, food everything). Weight done at public scale in San Diego. Weight distribution hitch is great with extra sway bar! The armada keeps up with my friends ford diesel 7.3 on flat road 55 to 60mph but slows a bit up hill. Be sure to keep an eye out on tranny temp. If it gets too hot downshift into 3rd or 2nd depending on what gear you are in already (going up mountains) to increase to circulation speed through the tranny cooler located in front of the radiator. If you want extra protection get a bigger tranny cooler put on. Do not use overdrive gear if towing heavy load. If you have $ change out the diff. oil rear and front (4x4) with Nissan Synthetic Oil available with dealer and diff won't heat up as much.

Have fun!

Hey everyone, happy Easter.
Well the easter bunny came early and dropped off my new Jayco 29ft Travel Trailer. I was wondering if anyone else has attempted to pull something this size with our Armada's?
I have the 29ft Jayco Jay Flight (29BHS). Weighs in at 5600lbs empty. I towed it home today with a 30 plus mph wind and it handled well. I have a Reese class V weight distribution hitch with the class V cam type sway control.
I know it will do well, but here is the interesting part. The owner of the place where I bought it was having a hissy fit that I wanted to pull this trailer with a Nissan Armada. I almost walked out on this A$$ (had I not paid for it 3 months ago). He said the wheelbase is too short and wasn't going to be responsible for my actions.
I am sorry, the wheel base is almost identical to a Dodge Ram 1500. I don't think he had a clue as to what a Armada was let alone it's towing capabilities. Thanks for letting me vent, now its off to more adventures with the Armada and my new "home".
Hasta la vista, baby....
Syko
Syko Kustomz
Wisconsin
2004 Nissan Armada SE Off road
Big tow
Journey package
Galaxy :machinegu

Cillyone

11-21-2005, 09:47 PM

alcadiente

11-23-2005, 02:26 AM

Hey alcadiente, would you happen to have an Idea what your tongue weight might be fully loaded? What make/model toybox do you have? I have a 03 Rage'n 2124C LX and I am using a EZ Lift hitch w/1k bars and a EZ Lift sway control device and a Prodigy BC.

I am sorry but I don't when I did the weight I was in a rush to beat the traffic I forgot to get tongue weight Factory list's it at about 700lbs. Anyway I have a 2005 Tahoe 21WTB TT (made by Thor) 21foot. I am also using EZ Lift hitch w/1k bars and a EZ Lift sway control device. Forgot what brand BC but it is not digital uses sliding swtich to adjust power and button for brake boost. Armada is great to tow with but have to stop more often for gas than my buddies do.

jtappan

12-05-2005, 07:36 PM

Group,

I am interested in buying a trailer and wanted to know if I can tow a Forest River 31BH? Hitch weight is 780 lbs, unloaded is 7,320 lbs, and GVWR is 9,580 lbs. Length is 32' 9".

Assuming I use an Equalizer and a Prodigy should I have any problems with this? or should I stay under 30'?

Thanks,
Jim

92TripleBlack

12-05-2005, 07:42 PM

Confused. Is it a 7300 lb or 9500 lb trailer? The former would be no problem, the later, for short distances only. If the later, get a true HD vehicle for that or go smaller. ;)

Cillyone

12-05-2005, 09:26 PM

Confused. Is it a 7300 lb or 9500 lb trailer? The former would be no problem, the later, for short distances only. If the later, get a true HD vehicle for that or go smaller. ;)

TB, he means the trailer is rated to weigh-in at a loaded max of 9500 lb. He can load 2200 lb of cargo, which includes H2O in the tank(8 lb/gal), propane, battery(s), food and personal stuff.

IMHO you are pushing it a bit, like myself, my trailer weighs less unloaded than yours but has a 10k GVWR which I will never be able to see as long as I am towing with the Armada. The biggest concern I have about your combo is that the trailer is pretty long and has a lot of sail area for cross winds. But others in this forum report no problems with rigs as long as yours. I have had mine loaded once to 9k and I did not like the result. I try to keep it around ~8400 lb. I don't fill the 100 gal H2O tank or the 34 gal fuel station all the way and only bring the toys absolutely necessary. Personally I am going to be in the market for a 3/4t diesel pickup this spring because I think this heavy of a load will take its toll on the Armada. I think 9200lbs tow rating for the Armada is a bit much, realistically in my opinion it should be no more than 8600 lb, even less in the mountains. It really all depends on how often you tow and what type of roads you predominately tow over. Myself, I tow a lot and much of it in the mountains which is much harder on the truck than in the flat-lands.

92TripleBlack

12-05-2005, 09:32 PM

Thank you Yoda tow. Good stuff. :D

jtappan

12-06-2005, 12:39 AM

It really all depends on how often you tow and what type of roads you predominately tow over. Myself, I tow a lot and much of it in the mountains which is much harder on the truck than in the flat-lands.

Thanks.... I felt like it was pushing it as well. I just happened on a pretty good deal for one. I'll keep looking, as I live in N. California and will be towing up into the Tahoe area most of the time. I'd like to tow out to Yellowstone next summer as well.

justsomeguy

12-17-2005, 07:27 PM

Not exactly an Armada, but definitely related.

http://www.paradigmhosting.net/images/tow.jpg

http://www.paradigmhosting.net/images/tow2.jpg

TopazM3

12-17-2005, 10:06 PM

It's an '87 Turbo Cup Porsche.... my track car.

http://www.erikhegg.com/photo/Kyle/Armada/armada%20tow.jpg

mcscholz

12-22-2005, 07:21 PM

Hey everyone, happy Easter.
Well the easter bunny came early and dropped off my new Jayco 29ft Travel Trailer. I was wondering if anyone else has attempted to pull something this size with our Armada's?
I have the 29ft Jayco Jay Flight (29BHS). Weighs in at 5600lbs empty. I towed it home today with a 30 plus mph wind and it handled well. I have a Reese class V weight distribution hitch with the class V cam type sway control.
I know it will do well, but here is the interesting part. The owner of the place where I bought it was having a hissy fit that I wanted to pull this trailer with a Nissan Armada. I almost walked out on this A$$ (had I not paid for it 3 months ago). He said the wheelbase is too short and wasn't going to be responsible for my actions.
I am sorry, the wheel base is almost identical to a Dodge Ram 1500. I don't think he had a clue as to what a Armada was let alone it's towing capabilities. Thanks for letting me vent, now its off to more adventures with the Armada and my new "home".
Hasta la vista, baby....
Syko
Syko Kustomz
Wisconsin
2004 Nissan Armada SE Off road
Big tow
Journey package
Galaxy :machinegu
we have a 2004 offroad 4x4 with tow package. towing a 25x8 cargo trailer from Va to TX went okay, the weight wasn't an issue it towed well however...

pounds deleted due to pending lawsuit!!
we also tow a 27 foot cabin cruiser which is within 9100 limit plus more for trailer and we have a serious issue with the armada on hills while towing. if you are on any type of incline while towing, the vehicle will roll backwards while in drive if you are not accelerating. it does this regardless but while on a boat ramp it is a problem. with the vehicle in drive, and the parking brake mashed into the floor board, our armada still rolls backwards on the boat ramp. this is extremely dangerous as anyone knows who launches boats. my current sop is to put the vehicle in four low, mash the parking brake, then jump out and throw chocks under the wheels before my boat launches the armada. i have owned countless vehicles, the last being a v8 grandcherokee w/ 4 inch lift which did not roll backwards on ramp. BTW if you leave the armada in park on the ramp, you can't get it out of park without releasing the pressure on the drive train - this is normal according to the dealer. Armada tows good but on the boat ramp it is a joke. i take my wife and son (5yr) out of the vehicle when i put the boat in the water because i am worried about the armada getting sucked in. which, come to think of it might no be a bad way of getting rid of the damn thing. if you dont have the new upgraded brakes don't tow it is not safe. after one panic stop with boat, brakes were trashed at about 5000 miles. :machinegu hey i wasn't born hating nissan - i've had several which were fantastic, but this one flat out S.A.B.O

SilverQShip

12-22-2005, 08:53 PM

this is the first case i've ever heard of the parking brake not holding the car. You might try posting this in titantalk, people over there are very helpful.

Mike Up

12-26-2005, 12:56 PM

Sorry didn't read all the pages here if it's been mentioned. Some here are dangerously overloading their Armadas.

Here's the specs. *9100 lbs/ 910 lbs tongue weight. Class 4 hitch receivers are only rated to handle 10000 lbs/ 1000 lbs tongue weight with WDH.

Never go by the manufacturers hitch weight. That is based on an empty trailer. Water tanks, gray/black/fresh will be situated to allow appropriate tongue weight as well with other optional items as AC. Most camper's regardless of their empty tongue weight percentages, usually come in between 13% and 15% loaded as you want no more than 15% and no less than 10% to keep your rig stable.

With 15% factored in as a no buffer room figure, you can only tow SAFELY 6000 lbs which gives you, your max 900 lbs tongue weight. Less would even be better.

The above is for campers as cargo trailers can have their tongue weights lightened by situating cargo. Campers can not since their cargo is 'fixed'.

If you need to pull more than a 6000 lbs 'loaded' camper, get a 3/4 ton with a class 5 hitch receiver. Since the Armada and Titan are NOT designed for those heavier weights, the hitch receiver mounting areas may not handle more than what the max tow and tongue ratings are.

If you don't mind being overloaded and risking your families lives along with others and then possibly being sued by being over weight, then by all means, overload. Please, just put a caution sign on the vehicle to warn others of your unsafe nature.

My Rig (http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/15697453/gotomsg/15731949.cfm#15731949)

Have a good one.

* Corrected from 9000 lbs/900 lbs tongue weight to 9100 lbs/910 lbs tongue weight.

Cillyone

12-26-2005, 02:51 PM

Yes you can factor for the worst possible case, but I prefer to actually weigh the combo on scales and know for sure what I am dealing with. Manufacture listings of empty trailer weights as well as tongue weights (as you stated) have been known to be in error. And not to split hairs, but for the sake of accuracy, the 04 Armada max trailer weight is 9100lb. Note; Toybox trailers have notoriously high tongue weights to counter the weight of cargo placed behind trailer axles. Example; a 600# ATV carried behind trailer axles can reduce tongue wt by ~200#.

Mike Up

12-26-2005, 03:26 PM

Yes you can factor for the worst possible case, but I prefer to actually weigh the combo on scales and know for sure what I am dealing with. Manufacture listings of empty trailer weights as well as tongue weights (as you stated) have been known to be in error.

Since most people don't have the option to weigh a camper before they purchase, they have to have the sense on what weights they should expect. Simply hoping on a lighter weight that's out of the norm, is a pipe dream. Once you've purchased the camper it's yours and you must be able to transport. If it's weights are over what the Armada is capable of, you simply don't tow it and pay someone to haul it. Since this is unlikely for many, they just tow overloaded. This is common if you go to rv.net. Some people brag about it. My personal feeling, you should be held accountable regardless if it's an RV or commerical vehicle. Your neglect will kill someone just the same.

By your statement, it puts forth an image that someone is hopeful and then weighs it. Finding the camper is to heavy for their Armada, they'll have to take a huge loss now, and sell it as used. Most who were careless enough to 'hope' , will simply tow illegally and endanger others rather than lose money.

I would have no problem if all RVs were required to weigh at state police truck scales. In fact, I would welcome it as those who disregard others safety who share the road, should be punished.

If your lucky enough to have a truck scale that's certified at your RV dealer's lot, then you obviously could weigh the camper loaded with options and water before you even start negoiating the sale. For most dealers, this is unrealistic and you have to be smarter than the inanimate object your going to be pulling.

Have a good one.

Cillyone

12-26-2005, 05:08 PM

Since most people don't have the option to weigh a camper before they purchase, they have to have the sense on what weights they should expect. Simply hoping on a lighter weight that's out of the norm, is a pipe dream. Once you've purchased the camper it's yours and you must be able to transport. If it's weights are over what the Armada is capable of, you simply don't tow it and pay someone to haul it. Since this is unlikely for many, they just tow overloaded. This is common if you go to rv.net. Some people brag about it. My personal feeling, you should be held accountable regardless if it's an RV or commerical vehicle. Your neglect will kill someone just the same.

By your statement, it puts forth an image that someone is hopeful and then weighs it. Finding the camper is to heavy for their Armada, they'll have to take a huge loss now, and sell it as used. Most who were careless enough to 'hope' , will simply tow illegally and endanger others rather than lose money.

I would have no problem if all RVs were required to weigh at state police truck scales. In fact, I would welcome it as those who disregard others safety who share the road, should be punished.

If your lucky enough to have a truck scale that's certified at your RV dealer's lot, then you obviously could weigh the camper loaded with options and water before you even start negoiating the sale. For most dealers, this is unrealistic and you have to be smarter than the inanimate object your going to be pulling.

Have a good one.
As a condition of purchase, I had the dealer tow the trailer to a truck scale and weigh it, would not buy one any other way, neither should any one else. If the dealer won't do it, move on, they don't want your business.

Mike Up

12-26-2005, 05:28 PM

As a condition of purchase, I had the dealer tow the trailer to a truck scale and weigh it, would not buy one any other way, neither should any one else. If the dealer won't do it, move on, they don't want your business.

As long as I was with them to make sure that it was properly loaded with water, propane, batteries, and normal accessories it will have. I would also want it to be at a certified scale. I'd be there just so they didn't fudge the loading and to make sure the receipt was for the actual camper I was buying.

Have a good one.

Cillyone

12-26-2005, 08:30 PM

I inspected it before they left and saw the certified weigh bill w/time stamp/plate#. I don't think they are desperate enough to forge anything because even if it was too heavy, I would have bought a unit from them anyway, just a different one, I have purchased 3 RVs from them and they like my money. The dealer even put 20 gal of gas (holds 34gal)in the fuel station, along with 70gal H2O (holds 100), (14gal) propane and 1 battery AND gave me some killer McKesh mirrors. Loaded with these liquids & battery it weighed almost 6800 lb (~6k dry) even and had 830 lb tongue wt. I add about 1200lbs of toys, most of which are over the axles. Someday when I am not in a hurry (yeah, right) I would like to have it totally loaded and weigh it. But it might be a moot point anyway because I am buying a mint cond 2001 3/4t 4x4 6spd Dodge HO CTD (18kmiles!!) in about 3-4 months from an old friend and it will become the front line TV with +13k tow cap. With the water tank full to 100 gal it would most likely be over the 910lb limit IF there was no fuel in the fuel station AND no toys in back. The trailer has a 10k GVWR which it will never see as long as the Armada is the TV. When we purchased the Armada all it was intended to be was a temporary solution to our TV requirements anyway. The only other choice was an 3/4t Burb (POS) or an Excursion (POS Ford) and I was just getting over having a big time lemon 1t CC Chev p/up.

Mike Up

12-27-2005, 12:37 AM

Sounds like you took a lot of care and have a good dealing with your dealer. Looks like your good to go with your camper/toy hauler.

Unfortunately not everyone has service as yours and must make a good determination on the loaded camper weight. I am surprised by your light tongue weight but as you stated, perhaps that's from the fuel station. I'm guessing it's behind the camper's axles.

Have a good one.

Cillyone

12-28-2005, 11:57 AM

These guys (dealer) did not volunteer to have the trailer weighed, It was a condition of my purchase or I would have walked. In the past I have purchased a Lance truck camper and a Komfort 5th wheel there and they knew I was serious and would either buy or walk. If a dealer won't do this on the condition of sale everyone should walk also, they are not interested in your concerns or safety, just profit. There are plenty of RV dealers out there and if they really want your business they will take the time to prove the trailer/camper is within specs, you just have to play hardball even on a used unit.

ejfinancial

02-14-2006, 11:35 PM

I've read so many "how does the Armada Tow" threads.. well here is my situation.. 2005 SE Offroad 4x4, with Auto Leveling and Tow Package.. I pull a 34' Fleetwood Wilderness Advantage, 7600lbs dry, with my luggage and gear, I'm pulling around 8500lbs. With only a Weight Distribution hitch, 285/75R17 Cooper Discoverer ATR's, I pass up RV's, Semi Trucks, and Dodge 2500's pulling 5th wheels, going up a 6% grade.

The Armada has to be the MOSt powerful tow vehicle in it class. I am amazed at its power.. comfort, and stability on the road. My neighbor wants to buy one after he pulled his trailer with my Armada. GO NISSAN... they got this one by the tail!!!!

Campfamily

02-14-2006, 11:40 PM

ejfinancial

02-15-2006, 12:00 AM

Thanks for your reply........

I will definitely get an equalizer, but with one, is a 29' acceptable? too long? pushing the limits? Perhaps I am looking for an answer where there isn't one until I hook a 29' TT up and drive around.

I've seen a couple of guys say they are puling a 28' and 33', but are they doing so comfortably or is it "on-the-edge".

Just a recap.. When I bought my 34' Wilderness Advantage, the guys in the RV service dept were drooling over my Armada, wondering if I could pull it. Empty, i'm at 7600lbs. I usually pull around 8500lbs loaded. I only have a weight dist. hitch.. no anti sway, and I can cruise at 65-70mpg at no more than 2500rpm, getting 9-10 mpg. Even with that weight, my rear suspension has movement..no rough ride here after a speedbump. If you have worries, by an anti - sway.. i'm doing good even with 20mpg crosswinds without one.

stretch

02-17-2006, 04:09 PM

vthunter

02-17-2006, 04:25 PM

ejfinancial

02-17-2006, 04:26 PM

SO my concerns of buying a weekend warriors 23 footer superlight (5200#) really should be no concern at all. It looks like many of you are around that weight, if not heavier. I didn't get the big tow package, instead got the hitch and installed it myself, but not thinking I would buy a toy hauler, now I want one. Is the weight going to be different than on the big tow trucks, or would I be rated that same as the big tow. I got the factory nissan hitch, my buddy hooked me up for a really good price, its the class IV.

Sorry buddy, but if you didn't get the Big Tow Package, your Armada is only equipped to pull 6500lbs. The Big Tow ads to the Axle Ratio, adds heavier suspension, and the Auto Leveling system. The only way you'll pull a towhauler is to get a Superlight, short one, or upgrade your Armada my friend. Is your trailer 5200lbs empty? That only leaves you with 1300lbs of cargo, toys, and water. Like I always say "Its better to have and not need, then to need and not have!"

stretch

02-17-2006, 04:44 PM

ejfinancial

02-17-2006, 04:50 PM

WOW, conflicting info between the last two posts. can anyone else chime in on this? I thought that the non big tow could do like 8100#. I realize the airbags, and axel ratio, and trans. temp. gauge, and bigger battery came on the big tow, but didn't know bout the shocks. I find it hard to beleive that this monster truck of mine can't tow a 5200# trailer, plus 2000#'s of toys/etc., this would really be a bummer. I know that I could add the airbags for the weight in the back, but the temp. gauge, would be my loss. As for the axel ratio, I don't know what it is, and what I would need. I mean, I see people towing TH's with freaking tahoe's, but I guess its unsafe, and they are just trashing the tranny, and engine.
Please, anyone have a third opinion?

Here is the link to Nissan's website showing the towing capacities. http://www.nissanusa.com/vehicles/ModelSpecifications/0,,124278||,00.html

The tow package also throws in a heavy duty battery and transmission cooler. The other guys reply maybe didn't realize you DIDN'T have the tow package. Not saying you CAN'T tow, you just have a smaller load capacity. And believe me, if a Tahoe is towing a big toyhauler, they're just hours from disaster.

stretch

02-17-2006, 04:58 PM

I checke out the link, thanks a lot for that. You got it 6500#. Now I wonder what the difference is! I mean same engine, just different gearing, and a leveling system. leveling system can be put in, and so can gearing system. Yes, I know should have bought it in the first place, but I didn't. Also, the hitch is the same hitch, I need to make sure the hitch is torqued to the proper torque, should I get it spot welded? ALso, what if I get leveling system, and gearing, am I good to go? I don't want ot put the family at risk. Lastly, what up with the tranny cooler? Will that be a make or break if I don't have, but am towing 7000#'s.

ggeorgie

02-17-2006, 05:35 PM

I have AN 05 SE w/out big tow offcoarse, and I was told by Nissan my Maximum towing capacity is 7500 LBs :cool:

stretch

02-17-2006, 06:30 PM

Well, per their website, its only 6500, so maybe they were cooking the books.
Does anyone here have the non-big tow, if so how many #'s have you towed, how far, and was it hot. ALso, how did the truck do?

thanks

:comphead:

scr38

02-17-2006, 10:23 PM

stretch

02-18-2006, 03:53 PM

Don't worry about the transmission cooler. All Armadas have two transmission coolers (one in the radiator tank, one air cooler between the radiator and the A/C condenser.), with or without the Big Tow option.

I dont get it! What would be the MAJOR difference that would allow the SAME truck to tow 2500#'s less? I mean, its the same engine! Is is only the shocks, airbags, and diff. ratio? If so, I think I might be OK in towing a 5200# tow hauler. I can get the airbags installed, and if worst comes to worse, I get my truck re-geared.

Cillyone

02-18-2006, 05:35 PM

I dont get it! What would be the MAJOR difference that would allow the SAME truck to tow 2500#'s less? I mean, its the same engine! Is is only the shocks, airbags, and diff. ratio? If so, I think I might be OK in towing a 5200# tow hauler. I can get the airbags installed, and if worst comes to worse, I get my truck re-geared.

As with virtually all tow packages with any vehicle it is all the little things that add up for the rating. Mechanically you will be most likely fine, and I have mentioned this in previous threads and hate to beat it to death, BUT you should know that if you are involved in an accident and if the fact that you are towing overloaded comes to be known, at best, your insurance company will dump you like a bad date. At worst, especially if there is a bad injury or death (manslaughter) and they prove that you knowingly operated the truck overloaded (AKA negligence) you might lose everything you own and go to the big house for free meals and love. Manufacturers tow ratings are NOT just suggestions they are legal limits with potential consequences for exceeding them. Any modifications you make will have no legal effect on the rating, the truck is "born" with the rating and not subject to change. Your insurance will be basically voided whenever you are towing overloaded you will be almost always considered "at fault" even if you were not. Just thought you might want to know all the ramifications before you purchase a trailer or head out on the road. Good luck with your choice.

Campfamily

02-18-2006, 08:45 PM

stretch

02-20-2006, 11:36 AM

As with virtually all tow packages with any vehicle it is all the little things that add up for the rating. Mechanically you will be most likely fine, and I have mentioned this in previous threads and hate to beat it to death, BUT you should know that if you are involved in an accident and if the fact that you are towing overloaded comes to be known, at best, your insurance company will dump you like a bad date. At worst, especially if there is a bad injury or death (manslaughter) and they prove that you knowingly operated the truck overloaded (AKA negligence) you might lose everything you own and go to the big house for free meals and love. Manufacturers tow ratings are NOT just suggestions they are legal limits with potential consequences for exceeding them. Any modifications you make will have no legal effect on the rating, the truck is "born" with the rating and not subject to change. Your insurance will be basically voided whenever you are towing overloaded you will be almost always considered "at fault" even if you were not. Just thought you might want to know all the ramifications before you purchase a trailer or head out on the road. Good luck with your choice.

Thanks, I never really thought of this ^^^. I may have to re-evaluate my situation.

Orange

02-20-2006, 03:19 PM

We have Armada and bought it to tow. We have done extensive research and have decided on a Rockwood 8317SS.
After calling manufacturer we learned that hitch weight was listed incorrectly as 1080lbs it should be 821lbs. Manufacturer also stated these trailers are built to be pulled by 1/2 ton vehicles and SUV'S.
Posted on rv.net and got slammed by the weight police, anything less than a 1 ton duelly is not a towing machine and we should stick with 22-24 ft.
Rockwood numbers are:
Trailer hitch weight 821lbs-------Armada--910lbs
Trailer GWVR--8008lbs--------------Armada---9100lbs
Trailer length --33ft------------
We also have sway control and weight distribution hitch. After crunching the numbers we are within range. As long as we load correctly should be no problem. We will definately post on how well the Aramada does and if there are any issues. Would love to hear from anyone else who's pulling large trailer.

Campfamily

02-20-2006, 05:11 PM

jtappan

02-21-2006, 08:20 PM

Would love to hear from anyone else who's pulling large trailer.

I just purchased a 2004 Keystone Laredo and took my maiden tow last weekend. The trailer specs are 30ft and 7670 GWVR. The previous owner included a Hensley Arrow ($$$) sway reducing hitch setup with it and a Prodigy brake controller. She towed beautifully. Don't know if the hitch made the difference or not, but other than feeling slower than normal you practically can't tell you are towing unless you look in the mirrors. :) or at the fuel economy :( I averaged about 8 MPG.

Orange

02-24-2006, 01:04 AM

Campfamily

02-24-2006, 04:58 PM

Keep in mind, tow ratings are for the base vehicle (no options), with only the driver on board. Extra passengers, stuff in the vehicle, etc., come straight off of the tow rating. Also, be careful you do not exceed the vehicle GCWR (Gross Combined Weight Rating). This is the maximum the truck and trailer can weigh together.

Keith
__________________
In response to above posting. The total GCWR (gross combined vehicle
weight ) for the Armada is 14822lbs. The trailer dry weight is 5921lbs plus 180lbs with all the options. Extra passengers, stuff in the vehicle and tongue weight come straight of the pay load not off the tow rating. When you add up the weight of the truck and the trailer we will not be exceeding the GCWR. Another happy Armada owner.
Thanks for reply

Not sure what page this is in your manual, but in mine, it is page 9-17. In case you can't find it, I took the time to type it in for you.

"The towing capacity values are calculated assuming a base vehicle with driver and any options required to achieve the rating. Additional passengers, cargo and/or optional equipment will add weight to the vehicle and reduce your vehicle's maximum towing capacity."

Cillyone

02-24-2006, 09:01 PM

Camp you nailed it dude. For every ones enjoyment here is a link to free down-loadable PDF Nissan owners manuals including NAV stuff, sorry Camp there is not a 06 manual on the website yet. http://www.courtesyparts.com/nissan-manual/

It saves going out to the Armada to dig it out of the glove when you want some info. The Armada is a formidable tow vehicle but it is still a half-ton.

Orange

02-26-2006, 10:26 PM

Oops! :eek:
I did look at the same page but I was looking at the payload aspect. My initial concern was not overloading the trucks payload rating with the tongue weight. I failed to look at the note at the bottom of the page that tells you subtract the weight of everything beyond the driver from the max tow weight. apologies to Camp

armoody

02-28-2006, 12:45 AM

I dont get it! What would be the MAJOR difference that would allow the SAME truck to tow 2500#'s less? I mean, its the same engine! Is is only the shocks, airbags, and diff. ratio? .......

It's the brakes!!
(that is meant to be really, hysterically funny, BTW :D )

Sand_Warrior

02-28-2006, 10:25 AM

SO my concerns of buying a weekend warriors 23 footer superlight (5200#) really should be no concern at all. It looks like many of you are around that weight, if not heavier. I didn't get the big tow package, instead got the hitch and installed it myself, but not thinking I would buy a toy hauler, now I want one. Is the weight going to be different than on the big tow trucks, or would I be rated that same as the big tow. I got the factory nissan hitch, my buddy hooked me up for a really good price, its the class IV.

Hey Stretch...
The 23 foot Weekend Warrior is the unloaded weight without options. In reality, once you add the 4.0 Onan Gen, pump station/tank and misc. options like 2nd battery, rock guard, et al, the unloaded weight will be closer to 55-5600 lbs.
I've sold a few WW's to Titan and Armada owners and they pull with no problem...well within towing guidelines. One Titan owner opted for a wide-body FSC2800, had his truck re-geared, chipped, reworked heads, headers, exhaust and he was shopping for a turbo last time I spoke with him. He states it pulls with absolutely no problem. As for me, I would want to stay within safety specs!!! Also, go with a Prodigy brake controller...zeee best by far.
On a side note...where do you live? I can hook you up on the Warrior if you're within a reasonable distance. PM me if you're interested.

Kevin

jim ballardjim ballard

03-03-2006, 12:07 PM

hope this helps you out. first, you need to make sure you are within the weight ranges. i believe the armada will tow the 29 foot just fine especially with the weight distributing set up. ITS THE TIRES YOU NEED TO BE AFRAID OF!

we bought ours with the intent of towing a 9,000 lb horse trailer. it wasn't until our mechanic discovered nissan is using PASSENGER rated tires on the rig as original equip. now we understand a lot of people buy the armada for looks and to use it as a passenger car. we wanted both, which is why we bought it.

the weight rating on the tires are misleading. because they are"P" you have to decrease the overall load rating by a formula used by tire engineers. you divide gross weight by 1.1%. for example, the continentals on our rig say "2601 lbs" NOT! they are really about 2350lbs. i'm still doing reasearch, however, EVERY SINGLE TIRE DEALER we contacted ALL SAID THE SAME THING. which was "you need LT rated tires for what you are hauling!" this was every one of them.

i would suggest you call around and see what you are told. i told the nissan dealer NOT TO BELIEVE ME. to go ahead and call around himself.

if i knew then what i know now, i would have had the dealer trade out the 18" P tires for 17" LT tires. or they would not have gotten the sale.

there are sooooo few 18" to choose from nissan has done a real dis-service to their customer.

other than the tire issue for use, they've taken care of problems like the brakes. 3 times for us. they messed up the brakes and the trailer wiring and they want me to believe what they say about the tires when everyone else disagrees? i don't think so!

plus, get this. i called continental tire and talked with their personnel who told me they believed the rig NEEDED LT TIRES TOO! Plus, the engineer the phone answerer talked to said nissan sent in spec's saying the vehicle was supposed to tow only 7,000 lbs. i don't know who to believe.

anyway, nissan clearly has some additional issues they didn't anticipate regarding tires and towing. nissan needs to make this right for their customers. i'm not a sue happy guy, i just want them to stand by their product and place the right equip on their cars when they sell them. thats not asking too much. they want their money, i want what i paid for. pretty simple contract don't you think? jim ballard

jim ballardjim ballard

03-03-2006, 12:14 PM

we've posted some info with regards to the tires. based on what i've read from you, you are OVER LIMIT for the tires that came as original equip.

call around to tire dealers and see what they say with regards to a "P" tire vs an "LT" tire. nissan f....ed us in terms on the tire load capability. the rig i would think could handle the load, but the tires can't. u need new tires (LT's) like we do. i'm *****ing at the dealer now, we've called NHTSA, i called our insurance company. we are on this web site telling people. we will be handing out flyers to owners as we find them driving down the road too. nissan needs to fix this problem for people like us who tow.

jim ballard (castleballard1@hotmail.com)

jim ballardjim ballard

03-03-2006, 12:17 PM

your tires if they are ORIGINAL equip will NOT handle that load! the tires are P's and u need LT's. call any dealer and get the information and then go ***** at the dealer to buy you new tires like we are doing! they have clearly put the wrong tires on this vehicle if your intent is to tow. jim ballard (castleballard1@hotmail.com)

jim ballardjim ballard

03-03-2006, 12:26 PM

if you have the original P rated tires your tires were NOT designed to handle the load you are towing. call any tire dealer they will tell you the same thing. you need an LT tire and we found out just by accident thru our mechanic. nissan owes a set of tires to people who tow things. jim ballard - castleballard1@hotmail.com

jim ballardjim ballard

03-03-2006, 12:31 PM

we found out that our tires were not able to handle the loads you are talking about. if you have original equip "P" tires, your tires will not handle those loads. if you call any tire dealer (and they don't care what you are driving by the way) they just want to know what you will be subjecting the tires to, they will all tell you buy LT tires! i've done a lot of research and even continental tires (the tires that came with my rig) are not the right ones! amazing dont you think? they said what everyone else has said "BUY LT TIRES!" now, go complain to nissan and have them make it right! jim ballard (castleballard1@hotmail.com)

jim ballardjim ballard

03-03-2006, 12:35 PM

dude, way OVER WEIGHT!!!!! if you have the original tires then you are lucky to be alive. the original equip are "P" passenger tires and they CANNOT hold the weight, even at the proper limits. i've done a bunch of postings. i'm fighting with nissan right now and i've made complaints with nissan and NHTSA in Wash DC. the solution is simple, we all have to buy NEW LT RATED TIRES. of course, don't you think nissan should have provided us with the proper tires to start with? jim ballard - castleballard1@hotmail.com

scr38

03-03-2006, 04:44 PM

I think we all heard you after the second post.

Cillyone

03-03-2006, 08:11 PM

See my post http://www.clubarmada.com/forums/showthread.php?p=27302#post27302

jim ballardjim ballard

03-05-2006, 12:44 PM

hi there, i'm new at using a web site like this so i apologize for any extra posting about the same info. i'm still trying to understand "threads".

i've posted other information on other parts of this web site (problems/tires) so we could let other people know about the issues we've run into.

it was totally inadvertant that we found out about the "P" rated tires and the question about whether or not those tires are appropriate for towing the loads that nissan states they will.

then, as we've dug deeper into the whole issue, we've come to the conclusion that you really can't tow 9100 lbs and stay within nissans guidelines. and you really can't tow 9400 with the titan!

for example, the gross combined weight rating (GCWR) according to nissan is 14800 lbs. the GVWR of the armada is 7,000 (passengers and cargo). if you are at max gvwr, you can only tow a rig weighing 7,800 lbs total which brings you to the 14,800 gcwr. there is no other way to figure the numbers. you can decrease the gvwr and increase your trailer weight, but i suspect most people are going camping with at least one other person and are taking along items that will be in the armada too. you will be real close, if not over the 7K gvwr if you camp like we do.

i camp a lot and extra gear weights a great deal, so your trailer really needs to be under the 7,800 lbs curb weight by a lot or you can't pack much gear and feel comfortable towing the extra weight.

unlike some people using this web site, its not my intent to make anyone think i'm am "expert" on all these issues. however, it doesn't a rocket scientist to easily figure the numbers.

the curb weight of my armada is 400 lbs more than nissan lists in their spec's (armada le w/tow package). this reduced the pass/cargo carrying capability because you need to at least stay close to the 7K gvwr recommendations.

now our biggest concern focused on the tires that came with the armada (and does with the Titan as well). understand i called around and visited several tire dealers who don't care in the least what brand of vehicle you are driving. they all said the exact same thing. "if you are towing the max weights the "P" tires are not safe! EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM SAID THIS! if its not true they are all either stupid or liars (or perhaps both).

the weakest link in the towing issue has to be considered. it appears that it is the tires. if you put these same "P" tires on a one ton dual you still cannot tow to the veh's max because you have to consider the tires. that only makes sense.

there is also a question about the "P" tires load ratings. when i called around i found several people who told me the p rated tires must be "decreased" by 10% when used in an "LT" (light tire) application. this may or may not be common knowledge, i certainly was unaware of it until i made some calls. the tire salesman/s never told me about this, it took calls to NHTSA (national highway traffic safety admin) and to Goodyear before i learned of it. i find that interesting they would forget to let us know about the decrease in tire load ratings, but its true.

take this info for whatever its worth to you. believe it or simply discard it, or perhaps call around to various people yourself and make yourself more knowledgable like i did. we are selling our 9K lbs horse trailer now and are buying a lighter one thanks to nissan. i'm still not thru with nissan and they will be hearing from me loud and often.

lastly, this isn't a "continental" tire issue, the same rated tires are used by nissan with goodyear and bf goodrich, probably michilen as well.

here are some contacts:

WWW.NHTSA.DOT.GOV - for filing complaints about vehicle related things. great info as well, you can read about other complaints.

goodyear 330 796 2121 (goodyear was great. i talked to an attorney who is also an engineer. he also read my complaint listed on NHTSA's web site, and advised me about the decreased load rating of "P" tires, they have their **** together.)

continental tires 800 847 3349 if you call them be ready for a rise in your blood pressure. go ahead and ask them about thier tire warranty. i think its really a SNL skit.

bf goodrich - 877 788 8899 - they were a little better than continental but still would not allow me to talk directly to a company engineer. continental refused my request as well.

i'd give you nissans, but i'm sure you already have it. we've filed a complaint with their west coast person but they've decided not to call us back. so i will call them back and remind them i'm still alive.

sooooo with all this said, and taking into considerations the BRAKE RECALL on the armada and titans, as well as the TRAILER WIRING recall, as well as the hitch recall on the xterra. do you really want to trust your safety to nissan telling you the tires are okay?

best regards and tow safely! jim ballard, reno (castleballard1@hotmail.com)

Cillyone

03-05-2006, 02:58 PM

sooooo with all this said, and taking into considerations the BRAKE RECALL on the armada and titans, as well as the TRAILER WIRING recall, as well as the hitch recall on the xterra. do you really want to trust your safety to nissan telling you the tires are okay?
(castleballard1@hotmail.com)

First of all if you would have researched the subject you would have found out there is not a brake recall, not now or at any other time, Nissan voluntarily upped the warranty to 36mo/unlimited miles. They were not forced by anyone to do so.

Second - the trailer wiring harness recall is a voluntary effort by Nissan also. Again, they were not forced by anyone to do so.

And yes, because of the above two items you mentioned, I do trust Nissan, certainly more than any other manufacturer I can think of.

BTW, could you post the link to this tire de-rating policy?

Campfamily

03-05-2006, 04:31 PM

jim ballardjim ballard

03-05-2006, 08:26 PM

jim ballardjim ballard

03-05-2006, 08:45 PM

okay, it was tough, but here is the link and what it says. it took me about 5 minutes to find it on line. once again, buy LT's if you hold your safety and that of your family above defending Nissan. and by the way, the weight and towing spec's on the armada make it a 3/4 ton truck, heck, they even give us a class iv hitch that we really can't use.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=70&currentpage=24

When it comes to selecting replacement tires for a van, pickup truck or SUV, the most important consideration is to maintain sufficient load carrying capacity.

Three tire-sizing systems are used on the Original Equipment (O.E.) tires fitted to today's light trucks, Euro-metric, P-metric ("passenger" metric) and LT-metric ("light truck" metric). Many 1/4-ton and 1/2-ton vehicles use Euro-metric and P-metric sized tires, while 3/4-ton and 1-ton vehicles use LT-metric sized tires.

Euro-metric and P-metric tire sizes were originally designed for cars and station wagons, however they have also been used for light truck applications because most vans, pickup trucks and SUVs are used to carry passengers, not cargo. Additionally, most of the new light trucks being produced today are equipped with Euro- or P-metric sized tires because they offer lighter weight, lower rolling resistance and less aggressive tread designs (which makes them better riding, more fuel efficient and less noisy) than typical heavy-duty tires.

However there is an idiosyncrasy governing the use of Euro-metric and P-metric sized tires on vans, pickup trucks and SUVs because these vehicles have a higher center of gravity and greater probability of being overloaded than passenger cars. In order to accommodate this, vehicle engineers are required to specify Euro- or P-metric sized tires rated to carry 10% more weight than would be required if they were used on a passenger car. This is the equivalent of taking the tire's load capacity branded on its sidewall and multiplying it by 91%. For example, a Euro- or P-metric tire designated to carry 2,000 pounds on a car is restricted to carrying 1,820 pounds when used on a van, pickup truck or SUV. This size selection practice provides the vehicle manufacturer with the appropriate tire load capacity.

On the other hand, LT-metric sized tires were specifically developed for use on light trucks and provide the full tire load capacity branded on their sidewall. They are the little brothers of the heavy-duty tires fitted to 18-wheelers and busses, and use the same basic engineering guidelines regarding load capacity. Because of this, LT-metric sized tires are built very strong, and use higher inflation pressures to carry a given load in order to provide the desired safety margin. You really don't want the tires of the 18-wheeler along side you on the Interstate running at the limit of their endurance, do you?

While there isn't a problem determining an appropriate alternate size when replacing Euro- or P-metric tires with other Euro- or P-metric sizes, the differences in load capacity and required inflation pressure prohibits mixing the LT-metric tires with Euro- or P-metric tires, as well as often prevents replacing sets of Euro- or P-metric tires with dimensionally equivalent LT-metric tires, and visa versa.

Selecting the correct tire size will help ensure you have the performance and long term durability you desire.

Cillyone

03-05-2006, 08:52 PM

Boys, don't get caught up in the "technicality" of it wasn't a "forced recall". The post card I received said RECALL on it, thats good enough for me, and thats from Nissan. And keep in mind, the brakes and the wiring systems were sooooo bad they had to fix them or they would have been FORCED to recall them. If you ran the Company (and it sounds like some of you work for Nissan) wouldn't you just volunteer to fix it?
Sorry, can't give you anything written on the decreased tire rating for "P's" or a web link.

I don't work for Nissan and repeat after me "there was NO brake recall". And apparently Ford, GM and DC don't subscribe to your "recall before forced idea". And I searched RV Net for your 10% derated "p" theory and it simply does not exist on the largest, oldest and most respected RV forum in the world. The only thing I found in my search is the Chevy Avalanche also comes with "P" tires. What I know for sure is that there is absolutely ZERO reference to this 10% policy ANYWHERE on the internet. You would think RV Net would have some kind of info on it, even one post among the tens of millions they have, they seem to have any other kind of valid information any other time I look for it. Do YOU work for a Nissan competitor and are just here to bash? Either way you might want to do some more research and have some kind of written proof to back up your statements if you don't like being challenged about your fairy tales.

Cillyone

03-05-2006, 09:22 PM

I see you found something, but it really does not apply here because the 18" Conti tire in question from its inception was specifically designed by Conti for the Armada from specs by Nissan engineers, it never had a passenger car application to de-rate from. It was designed for its only OEM use, which is the Armada. In fact you could not even buy them off the rack in 04, the only ones in existence were on Armadas. The Armada and Titans are just 1/2 tons despite what you might think. 3/4 ton trucks have a 8800 GVWR, much more than the Armada or Titan.

jim ballardjim ballard

03-05-2006, 11:04 PM

your killing me, with uncontrollable laughter. no, the same applies to these conti tires just as it does with goodyear and goodrich and all the rest P tires made - they have to be decreased in load capacity (the same size is made by others too for the armada and titan).

unless of course you are smarter and more knowledable than the people who make them. I will stick with the gentlemen who know whats going on if you dont mind. but, i suppose you could call the makers and tell them they don't have to de-rate their tires like they say they do. they might like to hear that from you.

i really thought i was going to have to provide a mathmatics lesson because of the way they describe the process on the link. i still can if necessary.

whats interesting is they must really believe tires rated at 2350 are enough to handle the loads. i still don't think so, and neither do the tire dealers selling the same conti tires. i will purchase the proper tires that should have been provided by nissan for this large suv in the first place.

in the meantime, you have to start doing a little research on your own and understand that you just might not know everything there is to know - you know? since you are smarter than the experts, why don't you take 10 minutes tomorrow and call around and see IF they really decrease the P tire ratings or not. i already know the answer and so do you.

no fairytales here. just facts. and you know, i've always thought we really walked on the moon, but the more contact i have with humans the more doubt i have. good rvn' dude. don't overload that rig.

Campfamily

03-06-2006, 12:18 AM

ggeorgie

03-06-2006, 12:33 AM

Oh yeah, I am very impressed with this civilized debate over this towing thingy, and that its not getting out of hand, I commend all of ya, keep up the good work, and keep on posting :cool:

Peter Benger

03-06-2006, 08:16 PM

Whew!!. I'm glad that's settled.
This was the most exhausting thread I've read so far.
I'm glad that I am only intending to tow a Bass boat - and a small one at that.
All joking asside it was very informative and obviously a lot of research and thought went with it, from both sides.
Thanks.

Cillyone

03-06-2006, 08:44 PM

sptddog

03-06-2006, 09:35 PM

I'm un-opinionated at this point, but found these interesting links on rv.net tonight referencing the % de-rating of p-tires gobbidly goop. Someone smarter than I has to make sense of it though. :o

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/tirespecskey.jsp#maxload

and a thread...
http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/17089949/srt/pa/pging/1/page/2.cfm

Campfamily

03-07-2006, 10:36 AM

OK, lets forget that the tire in question was designed by Conti for the Armada and that the Tire Rack list this tire in their Light Truck section and not the passenger car section. Go ahead and de-rate the 2600# rating 10% which equals 2340#. Now multiply 2340# by 4 (tires) which gives a grand total of 9360# weight carrying ability. This is 2360# OVER the max 7000# GWVR of the Armada and actually good enough for a 8800# GVWR HD 3/4 ton truck. You would have to grossly overload your Armada to even have a chance at exceeding the limits of the tires. Once again, where is the problem? :eek:

I took Cillyone's analysis a bit further. Let's assume the Armada weighs 5251 #'s empty (SE 2WD from the Nissan website; I deliberately chose the lightest configuration, because this gives the worst case answer). That leaves 1749#'s for cargo (7000 GVWR - 5251). Assume that all of this cargo is on the back axle (not likely, but go with me here). I don't know what the distribution of weight is for an Armada, but assume 50-50. With this scenario, the weight on the back axle is 4375#'s ((5251/2)+(7000-5251)). I can't see how we can put more weight than that on the rear axle without going over the GVWR, whether that weight comes from stuff in the vehicle, or from the trailer tongue weight.

Now, the tires are rated at 2601#'s at max inflation. Decrease that by 9% (according to literature put forth here), and we come up with 2367#'s. Multiply by two, and you get 4734#'s. This is below the theoretical maximum weight we can put on the rear axle by over 350#'s. A pretty good safety margin if you ask me.

Are the P-rated Continental's the best tire for towing. Of course not. They're also not the best for snow, rain, dry, handling, etc. etc. But, they do a halfway decent job at all of these, truly a compromise tire.

Keith

Cillyone

03-07-2006, 08:37 PM

don't overload that rig.

Follow your own advice and you should have no problems. :smart:

BTW nice example Camp

creeksidemike

03-12-2006, 08:59 AM

I tow a mountaineer 315rls which is rated at 7300 lbs dry and I was able to load the water tanks to a full 60 gallons. The Armada is a towing machine, but I would recommend going to your dealer and purchasing the telescopic tow mirrors. My dealer wanted $500 for both mirrors, but I bought them from Jim Mills Nissan on ebay for $360. I did the install myself, which takes about 30 minutes on the first mirror and about 10 on the second (cause I knew what I was doing at that point). As with any towing advice, go slow and be careful in the rain. Even though the dstc will help prevent jackknifing, its still a good idea to be careful.

ejfinancial

03-12-2006, 05:49 PM

I would also like to see written verification of the 10% de-rating of a P-rated tire. Yes, a LT tire is better for towing, but I have never heard about not being able to use a tire to its full rating because it has a P-rating.

Other than this "fact" (???), everything else you say about towing is common knowledge to anybody who knows anything about towing. You cannot tow at your full tow rating with a loaded vehicle, not in a Nissan, or any other tow vehicle. The tow rating is decreased by the load inside the vehicle, and this is stated in your owner's manual. You are also limited by the GCWR (weight of the loaded vehicle and the towed vehicle summed together). This is why most people do not recommend towing more than about 80% of the tow rating. Only trailer salesmen will tell you differently.

I don't care if it is a Nissan or a Ford or a Chevy or anything, a 9100 tow rating means you shouldn't exceed around 7000 to 7500 fully loaded.

By the way, there is a whole lot more information on this subject on www.rv.net/forums, a great website for RV's, including trailer towing.

Keith

Just an FYI. I'm Towing a 2005 Fleetwood Wilderness Advantage 320DHS. Its a 34' 7500lb empty trailer. I don't carry water, however, my cargo probably weighs in at about 1000 lbs, so I pull around 8500lbs, and just about everytime, can out accelerate most dodge 2500's diesels and Ford F350 diesels, pulling their trailers, going up a hill. I outpace RV's, Semi Trucks.. and have had no problem pulling this baby, only equipped with a Weight Distribution Hitch. I have the Tow Package and the auto leveling, which works SUPERBLY I must say. I know the numbers don't add up with the Vehicle Weight ratings... BUT.. I'm towing close to capacity, and I've had no trouble... what cautions are you expecting? Let me put it easy.. if EVERY truck maker, lists their truck towing capacity HIGHER than what it can really pull... then wouldn't the DOT, or the Highway safety commission put a STOP to this dangerous sales tactic? Lets be honest.. I'm sure they'd make them put an obvious notice on every truck with a tow package stating something like "Caution, the Towing Capacity listed on this vehicle must be divided by 80% to give you actual towing capacity" ... it would be a hell of a lot easier to just be honest... it would cost the dealers less in the long run too.

Campfamily

03-12-2006, 08:09 PM

Just an FYI. I'm Towing a 2005 Fleetwood Wilderness Advantage 320DHS. Its a 34' 7500lb empty trailer. I don't carry water, however, my cargo probably weighs in at about 1000 lbs, so I pull around 8500lbs, and just about everytime, can out accelerate most dodge 2500's diesels and Ford F350 diesels, pulling their trailers, going up a hill. I outpace RV's, Semi Trucks.. and have had no problem pulling this baby, only equipped with a Weight Distribution Hitch. I have the Tow Package and the auto leveling, which works SUPERBLY I must say. I know the numbers don't add up with the Vehicle Weight ratings... BUT.. I'm towing close to capacity, and I've had no trouble... what cautions are you expecting? Let me put it easy.. if EVERY truck maker, lists their truck towing capacity HIGHER than what it can really pull... then wouldn't the DOT, or the Highway safety commission put a STOP to this dangerous sales tactic? Lets be honest.. I'm sure they'd make them put an obvious notice on every truck with a tow package stating something like "Caution, the Towing Capacity listed on this vehicle must be divided by 80% to give you actual towing capacity" ... it would be a hell of a lot easier to just be honest... it would cost the dealers less in the long run too.

It's your vehicle, do what you want. But, I sure hope you aren't behind me when you have to make that emergency stop, or next to me when you blow a rear tire or encounter a strong side gust of wind......

PS - perhaps you should consider a career in RV sales?