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Who's towing RV's with their Armada??

257K views 414 replies 69 participants last post by  Titaniumarm 
#1 ·
I probably should have asked this before I traded in my F250 on the Armada, but I feel pretty confident I am within the acceptable levels on the Armada and the Camper. My Dry weight on the camper is 6700lbs so I should be golden. Who else is using their Armada as a Tow Vehicle for an RV? What weights are you looking at? How's it pull?

Interested to hear from anyone with a Travel Trailer who can give some insight?
 
#355 · (Edited)
Nice looking rig. You've probably got far more towing experience than most anyone here :)

You didn't say if your Armada transmission is heating up while towing down the road, but it shouldn't be.

The only time I notice a heat rise is while backing the trailer up an incline, especially in dirt/sand in the summer. That will heat it up surprisingly fast and you need to check the temp frequently while backing into that kind of a camping spot.

I've towed in the Blue Ridge mountains in summers and the temp gauge has never budged. But my total loaded trailer weight is only about 7,000#.

I presume you're using tow mode, and you should be in 4th at all times - not "D" (overdrive) - except downhill. If you're noticing a heat rise during normal towing in hills, try anticipating the need for down shifts and do them manually instead of simply waiting for the torque converter to finally downshift for you. That will heat the fluid more.

Nissan programs the shift points on the transmission for maximum fuel economy, not for towing. Try to keep your RPM 1,500 or above.

Along with all your other checks, you might slide under the Mada and check the hitch attach bolts and look at all the welds. I once towed 300 miles with a cracked hitch weld (on the trailer part of the hitch) before discovering it.

I looked at the specs on your trailer and it tops out at 9,000#, with over 2,000# of useful load - which is a lot for most camping trips. 9,000# is about the max towing weight on the Armada, so all should be well. But don't forget about the weight of full trailer tanks.

Looks like you've got 47/35/35 gallons of fresh, grey, and black. That totals 117gal and with all tanks full, is 936# of water sloshing around back there - easy weight to get rid of.

Have fun. I used to live in CT and the fall colors should be great!
 
#356 ·
Any automatic transmission is going to be generating a good amount of heat whenever the torque converter isn't locked up. This is why downshifting works so well, it gets the lock-up to engage, and stop the heat generation. For backing, I always go into low range, as it, again, allows the torque converter to lock up, and stop the heat generation.
 
#357 ·
For backing, I always go into low range, as it, again, allows the torque converter to lock up, and stop the heat generation.
I have thought about doing this, but decided not to, because I was concerned about binding up the drivetrain while making turns (very likely, since backing up usually involves tight turning). Also, I seem to remember some folks having front diff issues when pulling stuff in reverse, low range (say, pulling somebody out of a snow bank). In fact, I think Pops had this happen to his Armada.

Keith
 
#359 ·
Driving in Reverse in 4WD is a very bad idea. I had the same Pinion Seal in my Front Diff blow out twice from doing it up my driveway in snow storms. It's the dumbest thing ever, but the way the gear splines are, reverse pushes the axles out of the diff housing and with enough pressure the pinion seal breaks. I replaced the last one myself and the problem is they are very thin piece of crap weak seals that really should not be used on a 1/2-ton capable vehicle. Anymore I am in habit of changing to 2WD before shifting into 'R'.
 
#360 ·
I never tow with my tanks loaded. I may put about 10 gallons of fresh water in the tank for the trip, just so we can use the bathroom if we choose. Plus we may decide to stop for a rest and having some water is good. But yes it is a waste to pull with loaded tanks.

As for heating up while on the road. The only time a see any real heat on the trans temp gauge is while backing and while I am not getting much air flow through the coolers. So in stop and go traffic or pulling it up the mountains in east TN while only doing 25 mph I will have heat issues. So I will have to shift into the lower gears. But on the interstate I have no issues. As for the issue with backing. I live in the last house on a dead end road and I can not turn my trailer around in my yard or on the road to my house. So I have to back the trailer down the road and it is on and incline. I did this the first time in 2 wheel drive and the trans temp got to the line before the max. So I had to stop and let it cool while running. So the next time I put the Armada into 4 wheel low and I can back up all the way and I get almost no heat increase at all. Now on a note to that the road is paved but it is straight. I would never do this on pavement while trying to turn. The 4 wheel will bind and cause major stress on the drive line.

Now the issue with the heat build up only happens when you are working the torque converter. By that I mean that you have a higher rpm on the motor side then on the transmission side. So if you run in a lower gear you reduce the torque needed to drive the transmission. When you do that you will more closely match the speed of the motor side of the torque to the transmission side of the torque converter. While on the interstate the torque converter while lockup in 4th gear. Once locked up you will get almost no heat at all.

In the morning when I head to work the transmission temp is on dead low temp. I drive one mile to the interstate and the gauge is still on dead low. Once on the interstat I can drive my ten miles to work with the torque converter in lockup and the gauge will not move. Once I hit the exit ramp and stop the gauge will strt to come up to normal as I pull away and drive on side roads. Torque converter will then be unlocked.
 
#361 · (Edited)
I never tow with my tanks loaded. I may put about 10 gallons of fresh water in the tank for the trip, just so we can use the bathroom if we choose. Plus we may decide to stop for a rest and having some water is good. But yes it is a waste to pull with loaded tanks.
I

I wanted to comment on just this part of your post. Towing with "tanks" full? The only tank one may want to consider towing full should be the fresh water tank. The other tanks should remain empty with exception to whatever may get transferred (using the bathroom) while traveling.

As far as a waste to travel with the fresh water tank full. It's purely a matter of preference. I always travel with a full fresh water tank. Nothing like getting to your destination and finding signs posted, "DO NOT USE WATER. " I've had it happen and I'm glad my tank was full. It doesn't change the dynamic of how the trailer tows at all, for my setup anyway, gas mileage doesn't change whether tank is full or almost empty. FW tank is centered right over the front axle of the TT. FWIW, one man's opinion.
 
#363 ·
In the case of my Toyhauler RV with the off-road package I have a 100G fresh water tank weighing an extra 800lbs when full according to the spec sheet. I'm sure 800lbs of fresh water makes a significant MPG difference.

The tank is nicely placed directly above both axles and takes up almost the whole area though!
 
#364 · (Edited)
When I bought my trailer, I towed it from GA to So CAL. Except for the propane tanks & 1 group 27 12V battery, it was COMPLETELY empty. I got between 8 & 9.5 mpg. Fast forward to today, trailer fully loaded including snow chains for both TT & TV fresh water tank full, refer full, pantry full, wardrobes full, pots & pans, coffee maker, waffle baker, etc. etc. etc., family in Mada and I still average 8 to 9 mpg. I've been up and down the west coast (WA to CA)several times and places between. It doesn't change.

I take that back, I once averaged 6 mpg. Coming home from Vegas, head wind ALL THE WAY home. I cried that day!

I call it, the parachute effect. I'm sure gravity affects going up hills but it works on the down hill side as well. IDK, if I tied a parachute to the hitch with the same frontal area, would the effect be the same? Maybe that'd be a question for one of our engineers.
 
#365 ·
I have never towed my trailer for any large distance with any of the tanks full, either dump tanks or fresh water tanks, so I have no data on fuel mileage impacts. However, I can say that when I have had to tow for a short distance with full tanks, I can definitely feel a difference in how the trailer tows. All three of my tanks are 40 gallons. The fresh water tank is in front of the axle. The two dump tanks (black and gray) are behind the axle. I've had to tow from a campground a few miles to the nearest dump station with full gray and nearly full black, and the trailer caused a lot more "up and down" motion when going over bumps.

The main reason I don't tow with full tanks is that I don't want to exceed any of the weight constraints, either tow vehicle GVWR, trailer GVWR, GCWR, tongue weight, or max tow weight. Even with my light-weight trailer, I am marginal on tow vehicle GVWR, and having a full tank quickly puts me over that limit.

Keith
 
#366 ·
The owners manual for my TT strongly recommends against towing with gray and black tanks full with exception of course for transporting to dump. That's not really "towing," that's more shuttling to the dump area. The reason for this is just as Keith explained, it "unloads" tongue weight when the tanks are behind the TT axles. Not all are built this way but I'd venture to say that most TT's are.
 
#369 ·
Weight distribution with tanks full, empty, just fresh full, just waste full, etc will vary from trailer to trailer. Only way to know how it works on your trailer is to weigh the tongue at each configuration, and figure out if a given imbalance can be easily adjusted with cargo loading.
 
#368 ·
Well I just took my trip and all went well. I drive from TN to CT 900 miles each way. So I towed 1800 miles total. When I left from my house I stopped at a local truck stop and weighed my rig. My total weight was 14,560 pounds. So I was right at the limit.
The Armada did a great job pulling the load. I saw a small amount of heat build up in the transmission while climbing a very long grade. But as soon as I crested the hill the heat came down very fast.

 
#370 ·
The idea is not to have to adjust your hitch every time you tow the trailer. Waste water tanks on TT's more often than not, are NOT really designed to "travel" with full. I'm not saying for EVERY TT. This is not factual but again I'd venture to say that MOST not all are designed this way. They've been that way for many years. The one we had when I was a kid was that way, my dad's was that way after we were grown. My last was built that way and the one I have now is that same basic configuration, waste water tanks aft of the rear axles or some where there abouts.

It would be a real hassle if you adjusted the hitch for full waste water tanks just to have to readjust it again as soon as you emptied them. Many of the conventional hitches take hours to "tune." It would be impractical to adjust the hitch for waste water load.
 
#371 · (Edited)
Hi everyone!
I am new here and starting to do some research on buying my TT and Vehicle to tow with.....I do not want to get a truck would rather have a SUV and as I have found the NA is the way to go. Now you may think I'm crazy but I have no experience with towing and don't know all the terms yet I plan on getting everything in Aug of 2016 so I have some time to educate myself and learn....hopefully I will learn a lot here. I travel for my
Job as my username states lol and I am tired of paying others to live and moving in and out every 3-6 months from an apt or extended stay so I have opted to get a NA and TT. I plan on going to graduate school soon as well and will live in this during that time; as you are not allowed to work in the program I am going to be in. So I need little to no rent. (Just a quick bio about myself so you can understand WHY I am doing this) my question is:
I really like the 2007 keystone VR1 279 (now I realize you all might think I am crazy just going out and getting a big TT since I have never done this before but you have to learn at some point right? And I don't want to go with a TT that is cramped as I will be living in it for the next 6 years) but I also want to be safe so if I need to go smaller I will.....so another question: with all living items and extra curricular activity items would the armada pull this? How much do you think I need to save up for all the tow items needed (hitch system etc) do some NA come with the tow package? I will most likely be getting a 06 or 07 NA to tow my TT. Any advice like websites I can educate myself about towing would be great. Wonder if there might be a class I can take. I know this is a lot I'm asking but I need to start somewhere and the time is now :wink: thanks all for your comments. I look forward to reading. And my apologies for any grammar errors as I'm on my phone. Anyhow ttyl and thanks again.
 
#372 ·
First suggestion would be to get an 08 or newer Mada if you are able. By then, the infamous brake issues were worked out. Second, what are the weight specs of said trailer? Third, what part of the country are you in. I ask because if you are able, buy a car that hasn't seen the mid west or eastern side of the country. Snow = salt on roads = a car with a good chance of cancer (major corrosion & rust) on the under side. That's where I'd start. Help us out with a little more detail on the travel trailer (TT).
 
#373 · (Edited)
Here are the specs of the TT I want...see pics below. .....what's wrong with the brakes on an 07 NA is I may ask? I am trying to pay cash for everything so I don't have any bills while I'm traveling and especially while in graduate school. But I def will make NOTE of That suggestion
 

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#374 · (Edited)
Pics aren't pulling up so here is what I found....I'm thinking it might be too big for the NA
Length 29.9
Hitch # 905
Dry weight 6485
Cargo weight 3220
Is there anything else I should post about it it says fresh/grey/black water are 45/30/30 gal each

I will travel all around the U.S. I probably will stick to the South west as that's where I am originally from but I can be sent anywhere from Maine to Washington state to SoCal for my job I really never know.....I also don't know where I will be attending graduate school as I will apply to 3 and which ever I get into I move there because it's so competitive. I am open to other opinions and suggestions as to what type of vehicle to get to pull a trailer like this OR what size RV to look for, for the Mada to pull but if you are saying that 2007 and older have major brake issues I might just scratch the Mada idea. This is why I am here on this forum though :blush: to find all this out....so thank you for the response and I look forward to more discussions

Oh and one more added note I am going to have stuff loaded in my Mada as well. I will have to take out the 3rd seat and use that as storage....I'm thinking I'm going to have to go with a 2008 Mada as suggested and smaller TT......hmmm back to the drawing board I guess

Can anyone suggest what I "should" be looking for in specs of a TT if I want to get a 2008 MADA and my trailer will be packed down (I will be living in it full time) this way I don't waist time looking at TT's that I wouldn't even be able to pull Safely :grin: thanks! I appreciate all the help I can get :blush:
 
#376 ·
If you're wanting a trailer this big and heavy (which is probably not a bad idea, if you're going to be full-timing), and plan to carry lots of stuff in the tow vehicle, you'd be far better off with a 3/4 ton pickup. The Armada is an awesome tow vehicle, but it has its limitations, as do all 1/2 ton trucks and SUVs. Another idea might be a Ford Excursion, one of the few 3/4 ton SUVs out there. GM used to make a heavy duty version of the Suburban, but from what I remember, the tow rating on that wasn't much more than what we have with the Armada.

Glad to see you're doing your research before you jump into TT / SUV ownership. Too many folks I know that fall for the salesman "of course your SUV can tow this!!!" statements and end up buying much more trailer than they can safely and efficiently tow.

You asked in an earlier post for other resources you could use to get more information about this. I've gotten good information from www.rv.net/forums; just be aware that there are a lot of folks on that forum that believe (and are very vocal) that if you don't have a Dodge/Chevy/Ford 3/4 ton double dually twin turbocharged diesel, you can't tow more than a popup. Once you separate those apart from the opinions, you can get some great information from that site.

Good luck, and don't hesitate to ask more questions!!

Keith
 
#375 ·
I'd shoot for something closer to 4,500 pounds dry weight, as that will allow quite a bit more cargo load before coming up on any limits. You should be able to live quite comfortable in a trailer in that range that is designed for only one or two people (meaning not a bunkhouse model that is all bed).
 
#377 ·
We have a 2011 Armada and have towed a 25' TT (5,300# empty / 7,300# loaded) with it for the past four years.

Lots of folks in some of the parks we pass through while traveling are living there full-time and working in the area, so your basic idea is sound.

For the last two summers we've done more extended periods of camping, spending 2-3 months at a time in the trailer.

First thing: RV'ing is fun while you're on vacation. But when you're using a trailer as a full-time residence, it's just a place to live and nothing is as convenient as living in a house or an apartment. So you're going to be making compromises and will have to accept that from the outset.

Rent always costs something. You'll need full a full hook-up site (electric, water, and sewer). If you're there for more than a month, electric will probably be metered and will be in addition to the monthly site charge. How much you pay for your site is highly dependent upon the geographical area you are in and (if there short-term) the time of year. Tourist season will always be more expensive unless you're "permanent".

You'll probably be in commercial parks a lot more than state and federal parks, due to time limits in the state and federal ones, and the fact that sewer hook ups are less common there (not having a sewer hook-up gets old really fast).

You really need to do some research into park costs in the various locations where you might be staying. Here in Florida all the parks fill up in the winter and if you want a reservation you have to book far ahead - as much as eleven months for some state parks "in season".

Where we stay in the summer - out in the boonies in the mountains of North Carolina - we currently pay $1,500 - $2,000 for the 6-month summer season + electric ($50 or so per month)... which is very cheap. But we aren't close to large cities, and due to the weather, most of the parks are closed for 6-months.

Next thing is the type of trailer. In our experience, very few people who live for in an RV for extended periods do so in a bumper pull trailer. Even for one person, the lack of room - especially storage room - becomes a major issue. Most longer-term folks have a 5th wheel. It doesn't have to be a huge 5th wheel, but 5th wheels have much more room, especially storage.

We use the Armada for storage, but even for only a few months it becomes an aggravation - especially when you need to make a haul at the grocery store. Even with the third seat stowed, there is little room back there for much else, unless you move stuff into the trailer temporarily... and that includes all the extra hanging clothes that are blocking the second seat.

Of course, you'll need a pickup truck for a 5th wheel, not an Armada. A small 5th wheel can be managed with a 1/2-ton (about the same capacity as the Armada), but most folks use a 3/4-ton for small 5th wheels.

Although you can get by with a 2-door truck, a 4-door is more practical. In order to retain the ability to park in "normal" parking spots at the grocery store, you need a short bed truck with a sliding hitch in the bed (in order to make tight turns without running into the front of the trailer with the cab of the truck).

There's always a trade-off: You can't put a fiberglass cap over the bed. But you can install a roll-up cover in order to use the bed for groceries and storage of less valuable "stuff".

Not trying to discourage you from the Armada/bumper pull TT, but you're wise to start this whole process early. It sounds like you'll be spending most of your time actually living in the trailer, rather than towing it around the country sightseeing.

Before you buy anything, I'd advise you to visit some local RV parks and get some advice from folks staying there. If you stop at the office and talk to the folks there, you can get an idea of the monthly costs and they'll probably let you drive through the park and talk to some of the residents who might be outside, although at an extended stay park most of them might be at work during the day.

Basically, you first need to research the type of lifestyle you're envisioning and then decide upon a particular vehicle and trailer accordingly.

Good luck :)
 
#378 ·
Just a tiny FYI. I Pulled a taurus wagon gvw 6700lbs. (u-haul dolly) about 850 miles with my '10 Platinum. 60 mph the whole way and got about 14.2 mpg as per trip computer. I was pleasantly surprised as I was expecting single digits. Used tow mode and and couldn't even tell the Ford was back there.
 
#382 ·
25' now 28'

I was towing a 2006 25FB Safari SE. The Armada did great. Ive never pulled anything that heavy and the Armada made it easy. I've moved up to a 28' international GW 7600 lbs. We don't tow at GW. I was somewhat concerned with going up in weight but honestly while the 28' is heavier, I haven't noticed a big difference in Armada performance. The hitch weight is about 150-200 lbs heavier. Sometimes I think I feel a difference but it doesn't feel like a problem.

I usually cruise above 62 mph on the highway as below that the torque drops off and it wants to downshift to 3rd. On flat ground it will pull at 62 all day long without temps increasing at all! I can pull mild hills at 62-65 without a downshift. On bigger hills I manually downshift to 3rd and hold about 3000-3500 rpm.

I am considering upgrading my brake pads if there is anything better than oem for mountain braking but overall I am very happy wan would tow my AS anywhere! This summer I did the Grand Teton pass - wow! Steep ascents and descents! On the steepest uphill grades I was in 3rd and sometimes 2nd but no significant rise in engine temp or trans temp. On the steepest downhills I may have smelled some brake pads but no fade and it could have been another car or truck.
 
#384 ·
I was towing a 2006 25FB Safari SE. The Armada did great. Ive never pulled anything that heavy and the Armada made it easy. I've moved up to a 28' international GW 7600 lbs. We don't tow at GW. I was somewhat concerned with going up in weight but honestly while the 28' is heavier, I haven't noticed a big difference in Armada performance. The hitch weight is about 150-200 lbs heavier. Sometimes I think I feel a difference but it doesn't feel like a problem.

I usually cruise above 62 mph on the highway as below that the torque drops off and it wants to downshift to 3rd. On flat ground it will pull at 62 all day long without temps increasing at all! I can pull mild hills at 62-65 without a downshift. On bigger hills I manually downshift to 3rd and hold about 3000-3500 rpm.

I am considering upgrading my brake pads if there is anything better than oem for mountain braking but overall I am very happy wan would tow my AS anywhere! This summer I did the Grand Teton pass - wow! Steep ascents and descents! On the steepest uphill grades I was in 3rd and sometimes 2nd but no significant rise in engine temp or trans temp. On the steepest downhills I may have smelled some brake pads but no fade and it could have been another car or truck.
What year armada do you have?
 
#383 ·
So I wanted to post what I thought to be somewhat interesting. Those of us who tow with our Mada's, how many of you have actually heard your fan clutch engage? I thought I had until it really engaged. So, about a year ago I replaced my OEM fan clutch because when it should have engaged on a very hot summer day (114°) it didn't and my Mada got hot. So I knew it was time. Well.., now that replacement fan is on the fritz. How do I know? My wife used the Mada the other day and she came home and said something is wrong with it. She said it sounds like it's over revving. I had a very good idea it was the fan clutch. I took it out for a drive and confirmed it. Well, I've been driving it and when we took it to AZ a few weeks ago. Man did it really tell on itself. I can say whole heartedly I have NEVER heard this fan come on until now. When that fan fully engages, the engine doesn't sound like it's over revving, it sounds like it's gonna blow up! I'm mean literally. If you didn't know any better, it'd scare you.

Anyway, if you ever wondered, and I did a number of times. If you had to wonder then chances are it didn't. You'll know, there'll be NO doubt!
 
#385 ·
E & J , what is the criteria, temperature for the fan clutch to kick in, I have only heard the Tow cooler fans come on on both 2015 and our 2010 Armadas I'm thinking.
 
#386 · (Edited)
Hello Liquid, the way it's supposed to work is by the temp of the air coming through the radiator/condenser. The clutch assy. has a bimetal thermostat on the front of it that will expand. As the temp increases a valve in the clutch attached to that bimetal thermostat opens. That valve in turn allows a viscus silicone fluid to flow into the veins of the fan causing it to engage.

Mine has gone haywire, it was stuck engaged and now it's not. It's just time to get a new one.

I don't know what the temp is supposed to be that causes it to engage. Chances are, if you are not in extreme temp or towing in hi-heat conditions. You may never even hear it. I only know this because mine is broken. The difference in sound is not quite but almost deafening inside the car. You won't be mistaken about it.

All the years I've towed my TT, I can honestly say that fan has never fully engaged until now.
 
#387 ·
E & J sounds like very good and precise info,Thanks.. So its basically like the International and Freight liner Fan setup, When it engages sounds like a Jet engine starting up..These fans are huge.
 
#388 ·
Just an update on that fan clutch. So I've had it for about 3 weeks now and finally got a "hole in time" to put it on. What a difference! So, not only was it malfunctioning, it was coming apart. It caused a vibration at idle that drove me nuts! All that has gone away. No more noise and no more vibration. I like driving it again.
 
#390 ·
Lookin for trouble!

01 Fleetwood Prowler toyhauler 21' 5400lbs dry, about 8000lbs loaded

I run a decent size mobile DJ business and have a complete professional sound and lighting rig.

Here's a small off-road RV camping dance party trip 2 weeks ago 40 min. down a logging road
 

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