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Brake/4WD issue

28K views 25 replies 11 participants last post by  Gunner 
#1 ·
04 4WD Armada - 4WD indicator light on constantly. If any 4WD mode is engaged and you go to brake the truck, the BRAKE indicator lights up and some fairly nasty noises come from the front end: grinding (but not like metal to metal) and like stuff switching (relays or solenoids maybe?). Put it in 2WD mode, BRAKE light goes out and noises disappear, but 4WD light stays on.

I haven't had a chance to pull codes or consult the shop manual yet. Wondering if this is related to the issue requiring the BCM reprogramming.

Thanks!

It's not the BCM issue.

Got home, got the manual out and figured out how to run the 4WD diagnostics. You have to play "playstation" between the AT shift lever and the 4WD mode switch to send it in to the code reading mode. The codes I'm getting follow:

8 - A/D converter of transfer control unit functions improperly.

11 - 2-4WD shift solenoid valve circuit, 2WD switch of 4WD shift
switch circuit or clutch pressure switch circuit is shorted or open

22 - If VDC operation signal is being input because of VDC malfunc-
tion or communication error within the vehicle

23 - If TCS operation signal is being input because of TCS malfunction
or communication error within the vehicle

If I'm following all of this correctly, it seems that codes 8, 22, and 23 are all thrown because some input isn't as expected. 22 and 23 would explain all of the strange noises and "grinding"; it's the VDC and TCS freaking out because of confusing inputs.

8 refers to ECM troubleshooting, and is looking for a specific DTC code. Which I'm not getting. So I'm guessing the ECM is OK

That leaves 11, and that seems to be the most likely problem. It's either a solenoid valve or harness issue.

It seems that I'm OK leaving it in 2WD mode for now. I won't have a chance to work on it until the weekend. I'll keep you updated in case anyone is interested or runs in to this problem.

Something else I learned: If the 4WD problem indicator light comes on (lower right corner of the instrument panel) the 4WD shift indicator, located next to your odometer, goes away. This is expected behavior.
 
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#2 ·
I had the same issues with my 4WD light/4WD indicator but only after I had swapped relays with the auto leveling suspension harness when I was trying to figure out why the rear suspension wasn't working. To make a long story short, it was a faulty relay.



http://www.clubarmada.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15540
 
#4 ·
mightymouse - what did you end up needing to do to solve the issue? I'm having issues (I think) with my '04 LE's 4wd system.

The 4wd indicator light stays on constant and the 4wd indicator light next to the odometer goes out, as it is supposed to do when the 4wd light is on.

I haven't switched the relays yet so I am going to try that but, am curious to know what you did that fixed the problem and what that problem was.

Oh and how did you run the diagnostics to get the codes?
 
#5 ·
I haven't fixed it yet. Although I'm leaning toward it being a solenoid in the transfer case based on the diagnostics. I've checked fluid levels and electrical connections and they are all good or seem good.

I'm about ready to take it in to the dealership and have them figure it out. I hope it's not a solenoid, because I'm sure dropping and tearing the transfer case apart can't be all that cheap.

I used the shop manual process to put the truck in to a diagnostic mode. It's done using a series of moves using both the 4WD switch and the transmission shifter. I don't have the manual with me or I'd post the steps. Have to wait until I get home tonight to do that. If you do it right, the 4WD light will flash in code. Copy them down and then refer to the manual for the diagnosis and the steps to narrow down the faulty component. That's where I'm at, and so far one of the solenoids is failing a resistance check. Occasionally, but rarely, the 4WD light will go out and the indicator next to the odometer will light up, like everything is normal. But it will revert back to the failed position before long.

I've also noticed that I can still shift in to 4Hi or 4LO, even with the indicator on. Seems like it's affecting the Auto function, but not those positions. I'm going to check the switch on the dash next. If that passes the test, I'll likely take it in to the dealer and see what they discover. If the switch fails, I'll replace or bypass it to see if the problem goes, and stays away. Not sure when I'll get to it, though. It's not a high priority to me at the moment.
 
#6 ·
Thanks for the reply. Where did you find the service manual (for free)? I've seen it on nissanhelp.com but, I would need to pay $10 for a years subscription, which is reasonable just trying not to spend anything for it ;-)

My symptoms are similar to yours in that when I move the 4wd dial from 2wd to Auto/4Hi/4Lo than engage drive from park, the 4wd indicator light comes on and stays solid while the 4wd wheel indicator next to the odometer goes out.

I moved relays around like primov8 mentioned in his post (4wd light turns on/stays on) but, it made no difference. Interesting about what primov8 said though is that the relays he is referring to have nothing to do with the transfer case/4wd system per the labeling on the relay cover box. Those relays are for towing and reverse lights (or something along those lines). There are (2) other relays in the relay box that show T/F as the description. which I assume refers to the transfer case. Those relays are identical as is the relay for the VDC system, so I switched those around but, it didn't make a difference.

One other odd thing is that when I was in the relay box and under hood fuse box checking fuses, I came across a 10 amp fuse labeled "t/f relay" in the underhood fuse box but, to my surprise the fuse was missing?? I recently bought the truck back in October and haven't been in the fuse box at all since i bought it so I didn't remove the fuse. If someone wouldn't mind checking their truck to see if this fuse is also missing (or is in place) in their underhood fuse box i would appreciate it.

I noticed the same thing you mentioned that the problem doesn't seem to effect 4Hi or 4Lo. It shifts into both modes, which is pretty obvious as you can hear the diffs engaging and the system seems to work normally other than the 4wd indicator light is constantly on.

I think your right in that the problem has to do with the Auto function of the 4wd system.

If you wouldn't mind, please post the procedures to get the code readouts related to the 4wd system and if you have them, the listing of what the codes mean.

Thanks and hopefully we can solve this without you making a trip to the dealer.
 
#8 ·
Thanks for the reply. Where did you find the service manual (for free)? I've seen it on nissanhelp.com but, I would need to pay $10 for a years subscription, which is reasonable just trying not to spend anything for it ;-)

My symptoms are similar to yours in that when I move the 4wd dial from 2wd to Auto/4Hi/4Lo than engage drive from park, the 4wd indicator light comes on and stays solid while the 4wd wheel indicator next to the odometer goes out.

I moved relays around like primov8 mentioned in his post (4wd light turns on/stays on) but, it made no difference. Interesting about what primov8 said though is that the relays he is referring to have nothing to do with the transfer case/4wd system per the labeling on the relay cover box. Those relays are for towing and reverse lights (or something along those lines). There are (2) other relays in the relay box that show T/F as the description. which I assume refers to the transfer case. Those relays are identical as is the relay for the VDC system, so I switched those around but, it didn't make a difference.
The relays mentioned in my thread are NOT in any of the fuse/relay boxes and are not even labeled or indicated on those boxes. Take a look at this pic and those the are the relays I swapped to test the 4WD-Transfer case:



Part A is referring to the two relays mounted on externally, right next to the battery and not enclosed in either of the fuse/relay boxes.
 
#7 ·
Having the same problem also
 
#9 ·
I swapped those before, and there was no change. I believe these two relays control the rear air suspension and the 4WD transfer case. In my case, swapping the relays produced no changes to either the rear air suspension or the the 4WD problem.

Evo8dad, I PM'd you. Check your messages.

I did not get a chance to work on this over the weekend, but now that there are three of us having the same issue, I'm more hopeful that it's something simple. Maybe between the three of us we can figure it out.

I'll post the instructions for the diagnostic code a little later.
 
#12 ·
When you check those relays, see if they have the same part numbers. In my case, they were identical and the new relay cost less than $30. I believe some others had different part numbers and were quoted more than expected.

Also, the relay comes up as "Relay Bracket Assembly" under Nissan's parts list/diagram. The parts dept(Nissan of Manhattan) was nice enough to order the part for me without paying for it first just in case it was just the bracket; fortunately it wasn't and it all worked out.
 
#15 ·
Path of Pain- In my original thread, I posted that both of my relays were identical and confirmed it because both had a decal on them that read:

RELAY ASSEMBLY
25237 EA000
2738109-A 12V


I did run into two parts depts who tried to tell me otherwise but I knew what I was looking at.

If both relays are the same, you shouldn't have a problem ordering the relay for the auto-leveling suspension which cost less than the $46 quoted price.

You can always order it from CourtesyNissanParts.com
 
#17 ·
Hi Guys, I have the same problem with the 4WD light coming on and we know that the 4wd is working fine, so hopefully it's just a bad relay as mentioned. I'm trying to locate both relays to do the swap, however I can only see one of them. Does the battery have to come out to see both?

And should they both be the same number and I do the swap, which one is the one that's bad ( I keep looking at the diagram that was posted, but I'm confused)? When I do the swap, does the battery need to be disconnected? Sorry for the silly questions, I'm someone who knows nothing about cars, but don't want to pay a fortune for Nissan to fix something so simple.
 
#18 ·
Yes you need to take out the battery. Once you do you'll see both relays mounted to the inner fender well. The one closest to the headlight is the 4WD one that is bad. Switch that with the one closest to the firewall, than order a new relay and you'll be good to go. Once the new one comes simply switch the relay back and install the new relay in the 4wd spot.

FYI - the part number i got was 25230-0P200
 
#19 ·
Thanks Evo8dad, as I type I'm working on the relay situation...I removed the battery and see one box on the inner fender, it has the part number as everyone mentioned:

25237 EA000
2738109-A 12V

and there are 2 plugs that feed into it...is this the 2 relays? Or is there another relay box? Can't seem to see another one?

HELP!!!!! Thanks :)

Hey Guys...I keep re-reading the posts and double checking the illustrations I found on courtesyparts.com and it sounds like the 2 relays are suppose to be right next to eachother...well, WTF!!! my armada only has one? Why would this be the case, I'm the 3rd owner of this truck, so I don't know if it came from Nissan this way or if it was moved by a mechanic??? Sound crazy? Fyi...mine is an 05' if this helps. Where do I even begin to look for the other relay?
 
#20 ·
Before you drive yourself crazy, does your 05 have the auto rear leveling suspension? If not, that may explain the missing relay since its for the compressor powering that feature.
 
#21 · (Edited)
my problem is kind of similar... i have the mada in the 2wd mode and every now and then, (while driving)......the picture of the gearbox(on the screen) disappears and 4 tires lights up, after a mile down the road, the picture of the gearbox comes back on and 2 tires lights up. i know for sure that the 4wd goes on because the ride feels different.

other CA members said they had the same problem, so i thought it was normal. could this problem be from a faulty relay....this is a good thread. it could help alot of members....thanks 4 da info
 
#22 ·
Relay may not be your problem

I own an 06 SE model Pathfinder that uses the same ATX14B transfer case as the Armada and I have been chasing a similar intermittant problem for the last two years. I would like to describe what I found and thank you for your postings as they encouraged me to take a second look at the electrial system before replacing the entire transfer case with a used part from a wrecker.

The problem - While reversing my boat trailer at the launch or while moving forward at speeds less than 10kph in 4WD the dash graphic would go blank and the 4WD warning light would come on - I would have no 4wd until the system reset. On board diagnostics and the dealer Consult tool revealed codes for clutch pressure switch and line pressure switch. The system would reset itself the first time you drove forward above 10kph with the tranfer case in the AUTO mode setting.

Because the problem only took place when operating at forward speeds below 10kph, and in reverse I knew the problem was in the secondary oil pressure circuit controlled by the trasfer motor. On board diagnositics and the dealers Consult tool both confirmed this with codes indicating "line pressure switch" and "clutch pressure switch". Originally I unplugged and checked all connectors and found nothing irregular/damaged or corroded. Voltage checks with harness plugs didn't seem to indicate anything strange.

I considered replacing the transfer pump motor and filter but the cost was prohibitive (pump motor $1400CDN, Filter $180CDN) plus it would not rule out other internal parts in this oil circuit. The cheapest option seemed to be that I source an entire tranfer case from a wrecker ($675CDN). A final search of the web brought me to your forum and I inspected the relay and connections again. As this condition has been happening for more than 2yrs this time one of the connectors on the relay was now discolored indicating a poor connection. The transfer pump power supply connectors are simple spade type in design. I installed jumper leads between the harness and the relay to measure voltage drop within the relay and found the female connectors in the harness side loose fitting (voltage drop was fine). I used a small jewlers screwdriver to tighten these connectors up, cleaned the contacts on the relay, reinstalled the harness plug and so far (2 wks now), I have been unable to get the error message. I have included pics of the relay and contacts for everyone.

This was a real head scratcher because the harness was in great shape and not corroded. If you are experiencing the same problem replacing the relay may work only because you have disturbed the connection. Your problem may come back.

Again, thanks for your postings
 

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#23 ·
So i'm having this same problem as well.I talked to my parts guy at the dealership and the part number (25237 EA000 2738109-A 12V) that i gave him from seeing on here he said didn't match up with my vin number.The one he got was something else so he thought it might jus have different part numbers since yous are in the U.S.Anyways,he said there weren't any available in canada anyways an asked if i wanted to try the part number you all said to replace.Would it be the same part,for the front relay?
 
#25 ·
Well then,soo i've replaced the relay and i still get the same result.Any other solutions for this?

Skip the last post..it got working when i jus went to mess around with it again.I didn't do anythin different but wiggle the wires around but i did notice a fuse was missing.If that affected it or not.In the first fuse box where the t/f 's are but to the right there are 4 20a fuses..2 for the t/f cont an 2 spares.One of the t/f cont were missing so i put one in there an the 4wd works.So i don't know if thats what it was or what.
 
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