Air filter
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I'm of two minds on this. I know that a full up intake system (meaning a cone type filter and tube that replaces your existing air filter box) is good for a few HP and some torque. Can't hurt gas mileage wise either. But I don't want to drop $250.
Then there is the notion of replacing the standard paper element filter with a square K&N or similar cloth filter. This is good for maybe a couple horses and it costs about $50. But the up side is you never have to replace it - just oil it in another 50k. I did this with my Volvo -and 130k later I can't complain. I hesitate with my Armada because the OEM paper elements are good quality and dirt cheap at $8.
Then there is the notion of replacing the standard paper element filter with a square K&N or similar cloth filter. This is good for maybe a couple horses and it costs about $50. But the up side is you never have to replace it - just oil it in another 50k. I did this with my Volvo -and 130k later I can't complain. I hesitate with my Armada because the OEM paper elements are good quality and dirt cheap at $8.
in my honest opinion, an aftermarket filter is bad news. If you think about it. if you are letting more air pass through the filter - less restrictive - then you are filtering less particles. The amount of performance increase is not worth the potential problems. I used to swear by K+N but after much research, i stick with puralator. Fram is garbage - look it up. :talk2much Everyone should note, whether they agree with me or not, that you must remove the airfilter cover from the intake tube when you change the filter, not just open the clips. if you do filter change incorrectly, the filter will not seal and you will suck unfiltered air into your engine - path of least resistance.Rumplecat said:
Consider doing a search here or on one of the various Titan boards. There is a ton of info and a very lively debate. Everyone has an opinion and there is a lot of conflict.
All I can say is that we are in the production engine rebuilding business. Thousands of engines. We have never seen an engine failure due to properly used oiled gauze air filters.
I run oiled cotton gauze filters on all my personal vehicles, including an F-250 7.3L diesel with 450,000 miles, and on my off-road CJ-5 heavily modded Jeep. The jeep is a '77 model I bought used and have personally owned for almost 20 years.
The SUV I owned before my Armada was a '97 Ford Expedition I purchased new. I put a drop-in oiled gauze filter in it the first month I owned it and it was still there when I sold it at 107,000 miles about a year and a half ago. Compression was like new. Oil consumption, none. No indication of any unusual wear.
My Armada has two different oiled cotton gauze filters. A drop-in is in the modded factory airbox. I also have a cone-type filter intake system which can replace the airbox and be switched out in about 15-20 minutes. I only use the cone-type intake for performance testing and acceleration runs, as it is LOUD. Did I mention that . . . it is LOUD, and my wife does not like the sound.
BTW, the oiled cotton gauze filters are all K&N, but there are other good products out there too.
My G-Tech Pro says I get a whopping 2 horsepower gain with the K&N drop-in and about 10 horse gain with the intake system, a K&N Aircharger. I don't do this for the horsepower gain. I do it because these filters are indestructible, very reliable, last forever, and are actually easy to clean and reoil. One lasts a life time. Maintenance is low, because you only clean them every 50,000 miles. YMMV.
Edit: Forgot to add, I don't see any fuel savings. If it is there, it's too slight for me to measure. That seems logical because any increased flow would most likely be occurring only at or near wide open throttle anyway.
Just one point of view.
All I can say is that we are in the production engine rebuilding business. Thousands of engines. We have never seen an engine failure due to properly used oiled gauze air filters.
I run oiled cotton gauze filters on all my personal vehicles, including an F-250 7.3L diesel with 450,000 miles, and on my off-road CJ-5 heavily modded Jeep. The jeep is a '77 model I bought used and have personally owned for almost 20 years.
The SUV I owned before my Armada was a '97 Ford Expedition I purchased new. I put a drop-in oiled gauze filter in it the first month I owned it and it was still there when I sold it at 107,000 miles about a year and a half ago. Compression was like new. Oil consumption, none. No indication of any unusual wear.
My Armada has two different oiled cotton gauze filters. A drop-in is in the modded factory airbox. I also have a cone-type filter intake system which can replace the airbox and be switched out in about 15-20 minutes. I only use the cone-type intake for performance testing and acceleration runs, as it is LOUD. Did I mention that . . . it is LOUD, and my wife does not like the sound.
BTW, the oiled cotton gauze filters are all K&N, but there are other good products out there too.
My G-Tech Pro says I get a whopping 2 horsepower gain with the K&N drop-in and about 10 horse gain with the intake system, a K&N Aircharger. I don't do this for the horsepower gain. I do it because these filters are indestructible, very reliable, last forever, and are actually easy to clean and reoil. One lasts a life time. Maintenance is low, because you only clean them every 50,000 miles. YMMV.
Edit: Forgot to add, I don't see any fuel savings. If it is there, it's too slight for me to measure. That seems logical because any increased flow would most likely be occurring only at or near wide open throttle anyway.
Just one point of view.
Look Here
Some test data on filters. There is no free lunch.
http://home.usadatanet.net/~jbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm
Some test data on filters. There is no free lunch.
http://home.usadatanet.net/~jbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm
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496 Posts
Filter Interpretation
You give up cleaning capability to get higher airflow. It's give and take. We're talking about very small particles.
This means that AC Delco is most restrictive hence filters more dirt. Also means K&N is least restrictive means filters less dirt (less restrictive means more air flow, higher horse power).ggeorgie said:I don't know how to read charts, but does that mean the K&N filter is the best?
You give up cleaning capability to get higher airflow. It's give and take. We're talking about very small particles.
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496 Posts
Kinda
Yes, kinda. We are talking about particles smaller than household dust. Not shovels of dirt from your garden. Now just imagine 10 particles of dust... how about 100 particles of dust going into your engine cylinder, then it gets exposed to an 800 degree explosion. How much damage do you really think it's going to do. Probably none at all. So it really isn't that big a deal. Those charts are a sales pitch by AC Delco, if you couldn't tell, that's all. They make K&N look all crappy, but if they were so bad, why do some many race car drivers use them on their very expensive engines. Don't see many AC Delco stickers on dragsters.ggeorgie said:Doesn't that means, less restrictive, more dirt into your engine?
Crushin, not a good comparison, those racers are not trying to get 200k miles out of their engines like I am. And race engines blow up before they get a chance to wear out and besides I don't have a pit crew to change motors or sponsors to pay for it.FL_Crushin said:
I saw another less scientific experiment involving a fellow who put a film of white grease on his dirt bike air intake boot (between carb and head), ran it for a day with his OEM oiled foam element. the grease was nearly pristine. Then he ran an K&N for the next day and the grease was completely covered with dirt. I am not trying to tell anyone what to run, but you are only fooling yourself if you think your engine will last as long with a oiled gauze filter vs OEM.
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496 Posts
Good point
That is a valid point, but I guess it's like choosing synthetic or regular oil. My dad ran his Datsun 510 for over 300K miles with regular oil. The NJ road salt rusted it out before the engine broke down. I guess what I'm saying is that either way it doesn't make a whole lot of difference. But sure, if you want to ensure you have the cleanest environment for your engine, go with the regular pleated filter. So what kind of air filter do you have in your house. I hope its the high efficiency pleated filter. I would hate for your car to outlast your health.Cillyone said:
Call me a doubting Thomas if you will, but someone is going to have to offer some hard proof that the "extra" dirt that gets through an oiled gauze filter compared to something like the AC is actually sufficiently harmful to an engine that it shortens engine life.
Merely because something changes color does not mean it is harmful. This is essentially microscopic contamination we are talking about.
In theory, less dirt is better, more dirt is worse. But how much more before it shortens engine life? No one seems to be able to supply that data.
Raw unfiltered air driven at high velocity will carry big particles (like sand) which are extremely abrasive and will destroy an engine in short order. Filters remove all but the smallest things. But you reach a point where filtering out even smaller things produces no significant gain in engine life, but does reduce airflow and performance. No one seems to know quite where that is.
All I can say is that we are NOT seeing shorter engine life by running less restrictive oiled gauze (i.e. K&N) filters, not even in very harsh, high dust environments.
Merely because something changes color does not mean it is harmful. This is essentially microscopic contamination we are talking about.
In theory, less dirt is better, more dirt is worse. But how much more before it shortens engine life? No one seems to be able to supply that data.
Raw unfiltered air driven at high velocity will carry big particles (like sand) which are extremely abrasive and will destroy an engine in short order. Filters remove all but the smallest things. But you reach a point where filtering out even smaller things produces no significant gain in engine life, but does reduce airflow and performance. No one seems to know quite where that is.
All I can say is that we are NOT seeing shorter engine life by running less restrictive oiled gauze (i.e. K&N) filters, not even in very harsh, high dust environments.
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547 Posts
Again another good point. For the most part I would say that most mass produced engines are designed for durabilty vice perfomance. For example I've seen where some reputable companies like to run there engines at full throttle for 24hrs or even longer just test to the strength of design. Grant it the engines scrafice weight, performance, an efficency for this trait but when you can honestly say you won't need a tune up for 100k it makes a great selling point. :2cool:FL_Crushin said:
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