[andy]

http://home.usadatanet.net/~jbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm

Looks like our stock air filters are actually better than many aftermarket. Maybe K&N can respond to this.

 

[PumaFiveOh]

Hmmm..

This test was only to see how well a filter would actually filter certain elements and dirt. I don't think K&N and other "Performance" manufacturers really care how much better they filter the air....but they measure HP gains. And on a dyno basis you can defiantly see a HP increase with an aftermarket CAI/ or standard K&N filter.

This study would be like smoging your car with a STOCK cat and with a straight pipe or high flow cat and saying look how much better the stock cat filters pollutants compared to the high flow cat. Basically I think the decision is on you...run a stock filter and get better filtration with less HP or get more HP and don't filter the air as well. The only true fix is to get like an HKS foam style air filter which gives you the best of both worlds....but the problem with those is that they tend to break down after awhile and your engine will be sucking in small particles of foam. I guess you can't have your cake and eat it too!

 

[Cillyone]

Engine Life

This data has confirmed what I always have thought. Performance gains - minimal. Danger to engine longevity – real. Personally, the idea shorting the life of a VERY expensive engine for a couple of HP is silly and shortsighted. But I keep my vehicles a long time so it matters to me. I have always avoided buying a used vehicle with an aftermarket air filter; it just is not a “feature” to me. I have always wondered how a small aftermarket shop could out-engineer an OEM.

PumaFiveOh, not a good comparison - the cat-back does not let dirt and grit into the moving parts of your engine.

 

[Armada]

I just joined and this is my first post, so please be kind! I've been over at Titantalk for a while and have posted quite a bit there about the plusses and minuses of the K&N and other oiled cotton gauze filters vs. paper.

I don't claim to be an expert, but we have been in the automotive, industrial, diesel, performance engine rebuilding and machine shop business since '47 when my dad started the company. We do both production engine rebuilding (about 1500 per year) and custom shop work for speed shops and racing engine builders.

My general conclusion: Although paper filters filter "better" there is a limit to how much "better" really matters. You reach a point in which better filtering does not equate to longer engine life. Frequent oil changes (3,000 miles or less if really dusty, dirty conditions) with really good oil filters and avoiding overheating of the engine are the two most important factors in engine life, and we see no difference whatsoever in engine life when properly oiled cotton gauze filters are used in comparison to paper.

Now, having said that, let me say that I do a good bit of off road stuff with a modded CJ5 Jeep. It has a K&N sitting on top of the carb. In dirt, dust, mud, it can withstand a lot of abuse and even when caked with all that stuff still flows better than the engine can handle, even with full length headers and very low restriction exhaust. That set up has been doing its thing for almost 15 years on the original filter. Easy to clean and maintain.

I run drop in K&N's in all my vehicles, have for many years and have had no problems. One was on the '97 Ford Expedition I sold at 107,000 miles to purchase this Armada. It went with the truck.

And, no, we don't sell K&N or any other brand air filters!

Now, about performance gains. To be absolutely straight, I seriously doubt that a drop-in K&N or other similar filter will make any significant difference in hp or torque with our engines. I think the intake on our trucks is already pretty much optimized (unlike some other trucks), for the volume of air our engines can pull in stock form. But if you mod the exhaust, you probably will get some added benefit from the two together that you would not get from either alone, because it does no good to increase the ability to flow more air, if you can't pull it out on the exhaust side.

Example: I also have a K&N AirCharger for this truck. I have an accelerometer and believe in using such equipment to objectively measure changes. While the AirCharger is a lot louder than the standard air box, I can't see any really measurable increase in performance - maybe a couple hp and a couple pounds of torque. If I unplug the exhaust (uncertain whether I will) chances are that I will see more gain, but at the expense of a LOT of noise.

Summary: Paper and oiled cotton - no real performance difference on our engines in stock form. But if you take the truck off road a lot, drive in dust, dirt, mud, the K&N makes sense. Or if you, like me, prefer to do your own maintenance and intend to keep the truck a long time, then you will save money in the long run with the K&N. If you open up the exhaust then the K&N will flow better and it will show then, but probably not without that.

Thanks for letting me drone on. I'll try to be more concise in my future posts.

Don't you just love these trucks? Intoxicating.

 

[scr38]

Good post, Armada. Glad to have you here.

 

[adjmcloon]

K&N

I have a drop in K&N, and previously I had an airraid intake and Corsa exhaust on my Tahoe.

What is up with the loss of low end when you add an aftermarket exhaust? I've read a bit about backpressure- will coupling a higher flow intake with an exhaust eliminate the low-end loss?

I'm quite happy with my Armada in stock form as far as the engine/tranny go. It's got plenty of power, and after the Tahoe I don't think I'd be interested in modding out the intake/exhaust, unless I'd get some crazy gas mileage improvement or something.

 

[madamadness]

Any Gain in MPG with the drop in filter, or with the K&N CAI kit?

 

[Armada]

No gain or loss with the drop-in. It is neutral. I have the AirCharger too and can put it on or remove it in a few minutes at will (the time consumed is in the initial assembly), but have not run it long enough to tell if it makes any difference in fuel economy. I doubt it, because I think it flows better than our engines are capable of using without an exhaust with full-length headers and hotter camshafts - - - and if you go that route, then gas mileage is not going to be something you really care about.

 

[adjmcloon]

I've had no gain using my K&N drop in in mpg or anything else. Put about 20k on it, and I average around 15.5-16.0

 

[Cammer]

I put the K/N off road intake and Borla Dual exhaust on at the same time so I can't report on them individually. But I did notice approx. 1.5 mpg improvement and I don't have a dyno but I was able to tow my trailer approx. 8 mph faster over Spooner summit after the upgrades!

 

[sinnerFA]

I just put an AEM Brute Force Intake on my '05 and with the limited mileage I have put on it seems to be about the same mpg... I guess I'll have to wait for a Road Trip! :bonvoyage