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Discussion Starter #1
I have 2013 armada plat 4x4
Daystar 2" lift front and back
Bilstein 4600 front (2016)
and back (2018)
Moog 81085 springs on back (2018)
Moog say bar end links last year. (2019)
OEM springs in front.

Still do not love the handling.
It's still way better then before air delete,
But I feel like it has too much sway and roll.

My butt tells me to somehow fabricate a second mount for an extra set of shocks on rears and to replace front coil springs with something a bit stiffer.

My prior esearch told me the bilstein 4600 was a better shock for heavy trucks then the 5100, but clearly if I am taking that oem spring out i will replace shock too. Probable just stick with 4600, but not adverse to trying something different on the shocks. I do not look forward to getting those lower shock bolts out or compressing the front springs, but if club armada provides a consensus I will spend the money and do the labor.

To me it's just like the truck is just too heavy for its suspension.

I drive a 13 ram 1500 outdoorsman with heavy duty springs and bil 4600 , daystar leveling spacers on front. When I drive armada on weekends its defintely smoother but at highway speeds no where near as solid as ram feels. That's all I can compare it too.

The bilstein 4600 on front are about 4 years old. Now, but probabale only have 25k miles on them.

Any thoughts on sway bars, I replaced the end links last year and had truck aligned. When Replacing the rear end links I snapped a bushing mount bolt so drove truck for a few days with sway bar removed. Neither me or my ultra sensitive wife could tell difference. I have a suspicion all those rear sway bars are doing is adding weight to truck. I also kinda feel like the end links are being stressed by the moog springs and shocks.


Tires.
I have the crappy Goodyear wrangler sra p275/60/20.

I just ordered sumitomo encounter at in same size. I kinda feel like I should have gone with the LT version, but it was $264 per tire over $133 per tire at walmart.

Any thoughts on front springs, swat bars or adding extra shocks to.rear?

Sorry for long post, it's just who I am.
 

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The 4600 and 5100, to my knowledge, are the same shock. The 5100 are made for lifted trucks and can accommodate a longer free spring length. Your spring rate may be too low for your weight. I know the Tundra guys will play around with spring rates if they have aftermarket bumpers, added weight, etc. But a lot of times, the stock spring rate is just too weak.

What load rating are your current tires and what load rating are your new tires?
And what PSI are your running? Again, all personal preference, but I do not run whats on the door (far too low IMHO). I accept no responsibility for the pressure you choose to run.

A mushy tire will contribute to a vehicle that doesn't feel planted and has excessive body roll, it will feel like a weak sway bar or no sway bar. I would recommend Load D, I'm not a tire guy and I have no industry accolades, that's just what I run based on the weight of the vehicle and the weight of what I normally tow/haul. I personally would always rather have a tire capable of higher loads and a stiffer sidewall. Yes, you will sacrifice a bit of plushness, but this can be fine tuned with air pressure. I like the feel of a firm tire and I like the option to increase my PSI to max rating if I'm towing or hauling. I also like that the tire doesn't flex like a water balloon when cornering.

"extra" shocks are not going to help your situation. Start with the basics I listed. If that doesn't help then I would look at the total health of your sway bars and consider better shocks.
 

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The 5100 has the adjustable ride-height perch whereas the 4600 doesn’t. No other differences.
What I’ve learned in the past when I had my 04 is finding a shop with a knowledgeable alignment tech. Make sure the tech actually knows how to align a 4WD vehicle with IFS AND IRS. Always ask for a printout of the before and after. You’d be surprised as there are many out there who doesn’t have a clue. These trucks are so so sensitive with the rear alignment going out of specs and when it does, it throws the whole ride off.
Even my current QX80 is no different when it comes to alignment. Before leaving for our road trip this past weekend, I drove out to my go-to tire/alignment shop. I was noticing a bit more play on the rear suspension when going over uneven pavement, road plates, etc. Doug found the passenger side front and rear both out of spec. The last time I had an alignment was back in ‘17 and since then, I’ve replaced the front wheel hub, front UCA ball joints, custom 6100 front struts and new rear bushings. He got it perfect and the drive down here to Myrtle Beach was smooth sailing.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Since I already paid for new tires, they are slightly heavier load and better load rating then the wranglers on there now. They are being installed and an alignment done this coming tuesday.

Since I did sway bar end links, rear bushings not front. I got lazy. I guess I will add those bushings to tire shop to do before alignment. Cannot cost much.
We will see what it rides like when the tires and alignment are done. New bushings might help on front. New tires will help a little. I knew I should have gotten the lt version of the tires. They where twice the price, but i know you get what you pay for.

The sumitomo encounter at 275/60/20 where on sale from $170 a tire to $133 a tire. Oh well the die is cast.

Still interested in stiffer springs for front.
 

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I want to second what Primo said regarding alignment. It is more than just the front, the rear needs to be aligned as well. Make sure your alignment shop is experienced with doing a full 4 wheel alignment. A lot of them focus on the front, but if the rear is out, you'll get weird behavior. I also second the comments regarding tire pressure. I run 40 psi all around, and although it isn't a sports car, it does track and steer nicely. I've noticed a bit more "wallow" from the front than what I'd like, but likely because I'm still running OEM shocks up front, with over 80K miles on them. Plus, I don't typically drive the truck, my wife does. So when I drive it, I compare it to my daily driver, which frankly, isn't comparable.

Keith
 

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I did the Moog springs in the rear with Bilstein front/rear. I felt the ride was still to bouncy until I installed the firestone air bags. I keep them at 10lbs unless I am towing and they really stiffened the ride up. Just another option to consider.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
We just had nw tires installed. Sumitomo encounter at p275/60/20. They are same size as oem wrangler. So.far we like them. White smooth on road, look good.

Also.did daystar 2" spacer lift all the way around. Looks and feels good.

Alignment nightmare
Took to my local tire shop to get new tires installed and 4 wheel alignment done. (been using him for years)
1 st time he said rear control arm bushing where shot but he got it close. Steering wheel was canted to right about an inch and truck rode like poorly

Took it back. Got steering wheel to about 1/2 to right truck still road poorly.

Finally decided to take it to firestone for lifetime alignment.
Front is now dead on. Rear is close to spec, but until I get control arms replaced this sunday it will suffice.
Truck rides much better. I would never have suspected that the alignment could effect ride quality so much.

I am curious about the air bags. It's been troubling to figure out what suspension needs to make it feel .ore stable. It's hard to explain the sensation of it just feeling loose or soft.
Moog 81085 springs in back
OEM springs in front.
Bul 4600 front and back.
New sway bar links and bushings.
 

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2018. I run Firestone Coil-Rite bags.
10 PSI all the time.
30 PSI when I'm towing the camper or hauling my dirt bike on a carrier.

The 10PSI all the time definitely makes the back end feel firm, planted, and confident. It also transfers just a tiny bit more pressure to the front wheels, which IMHO makes the front end feel much more confident as well.

My basis for installing these air bags was based on the amount of time spent towing, hauling, carrying, etc...My factory auto-air setup works well still, but I feel that this small investment in the airbags will keep the auto-air setup alive for much longer.
 

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I did the Moog springs in the rear with Bilstein front/rear. I felt the ride was still to bouncy until I installed the firestone air bags. I keep them at 10lbs unless I am towing and they really stiffened the ride up. Just another option to consider.
I'm thinking about replacing my air ride to to standard shocks, how did you by pass the air suspension sensor?
 

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I'm thinking about replacing my air ride to to standard shocks, how did you by pass the air suspension sensor?
My air compressor was no longer working. I cut the airlines to the shocks and left everything else connected. No check engine lights.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I started by capping compressor lines but compressor still ran because I disconnected the height sensor when I put the lift on.
I just unplugged it and taped the end of the plug in case I ever want to go back which is not gonna happen.
Heavier bigger springs moog 80185, milstein 4600hd shcxks and daystar 2" lift coil spacers.

I broke the bushings on the lower coil bucket control arm so have both the coil bucket and front control arms replaced in two weeks.
Everything is fine as is, but rear alignment is a little out of second because I pushed both coil buckets down without loosening the adjustment bolts. Lesson learned by having to pay for it.
I would do it myself but I work all day in thia heat and so not have it in mean to take all shit apart again.. toom me 5 hours to install that lift kit and break my lower control arm bushings.
 
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